How much for a Diesel?

[Shed Cat]

Just another idle thought, but does anyone know how much a new mainline diesel would cost?

I'm sure it is complicated as the larger the batch sold, the cheaper the individual cost. Maybe a "£xx million deal for 30 locomotives" might also include a set of spares like new diesel power packs, (or free 500,000 mile servicing )

But generally are we talking a £1m for a Class 66, or £2m, or what?

(No, I havn't won the lottery )

[Dynamo]

I think when EWS first bought their 250 Class 66's and 30 Class 67's, the price for the lot was about £500 million, so they were just under £2 million each. That was ten years ago though so I dare say they'll be a smidgen over that now.

[John H-T]

Makes two and a half million for a one off A1 look quite good value for money!

[Shed Cat]

Originally Posted by John H-T

Makes two and a half million for a one off A1 look quite good value for money!

I think that might have been subconciously behind my question. "Modern" motive power always cost a hugh amount more than steam, even though it was more powerfull and has a much higher utilisation.

So when I read about the latest cost of Tornado, i wondered how it compared.

[John H-T]

...... and Tornado is a one off not a production model!

[Derbyroy]

Evening gents,
Surely we are getting beyond the cost of a deisel engine nowadays,
rail operators do not buy "A " deisel, they buy a rail set of deisel powered rail cars in either 2, 3 4 ,5 0r 6 . packages so the cost for each must be dependent on their, composite.?
(I don,t know the ins and outs of buying trains i haven,t won the lottery either). but would love to know the answer to all the above .
surely a single locomotive would be cheaper than a composite set ?
best regards Derby

[hairyhandedfool]

The costs of building a single loco/unit are higher than the average cost of building two or even three locos because in order to build one loco requires a production line to be set up, which incures all the normal set up costs, however if there are two or three being built, the second and third (etc) will not suffer these initial costs. So if, say, twenty A1s were built the cost would be less per unit than a diesel loco

[Foghut]

Originally Posted by Derbyroy

rail operators do not buy "A " deisel, they buy a rail set of deisel powered rail cars in either 2, 3 4 ,5 0r 6 . packages so the cost for each must be dependent on their, composite.?

Actually it's exceedingly rare for a TOC to buy or own rolling stock, it's usually the ROSCOs who do that. Hence the recent hypocrisy by the DfT screaming about how wicked the leasing monopoly is - when it was their predecessor which invented the present system !!!


If you're travelling on a passenger train and you're bored/curious enough, try looking at either of the end walls of the carriage near where the vehicle number is displayed. Very often you will find a little plate with Angel Trains, Porterbrook, or whatever on it. They're the true owners, and they're usually a front for a large bank such as HSBC or Abbey National. "Money makes money", as they say.


Before someone who reads RAIL jumps in and says "Yeabut".......I do know that as an exception to the rule GoAhead have just ordered 12 Class 377s which they are financing themselves. This is a peculiar one-off which is meant to speed up Thameslink 2000 Phase 0, because it would take longer if a ROSCO were to finance the deal. TL2000 should originally have started in Dec 2008, but is already delayed by 3 months due to complications in rolling stock exchange between Southern/SouthEastern/FCC(TL). It's expected that by the time the 377s are delivered (first quarter of 2009 hopefully !!!) a ROSCO will be found to buy them off GoAhead.

As I'm sure you've noticed it's a very short lead time for building rolling stock, but FCC(TL) has been allocated 27 class 377s for several years so I suspect that an order was placed before a purchaser was nominated.

If you're wondering why FCC needs (Dual Voltage) 377s - it's for the 12 car Bedford-Brighton service. At the same time it's also taking Southern's remaining 12 class 319 Dual Voltage stock for the 'new' Sevenoaks-St Albans/Luton/Bedford service which it will run in conjunction with SouthEastern. Because FCC's 319s will be covering a Networker service, some SouthEastern 465/466s will go across to Southern to make up their for 319 & 377 losses. It's very much a three way split of stock, so there is going to be quite an upheaval down in the South East soon.

(Hope this makes sense, TL2000 is very complicated).

[hairyhandedfool]

I'd just like to add one thing, and don't take this as critisism because it's not, TL2000 has started because they have started on lengthening Luton Airport Parkway station, which in reality is the only one they can currently lengthen. I can only imagine the upheaval at St Albans!

FYI: I don't read RAIL, I'm just (badly) informed!!!

[Foghut]

Originally Posted by hairyhandedfool

I'd just like to add one thing, and don't take this as critisism because it's not, TL2000 has started because they have started on lengthening Luton Airport Parkway station.

Yup the 12 car platform lengthening scheme has begun at last, thank goodness.

However what I was referring to is the part of the plan (known as Phase 0) which will see 319s working between Sevenoaks and 'somewhere not yet confirmed' on the LMR. All of this comes about because Sevenoaks services won't be able to terminate at Blackfriars for several years. And the reason for that is that the bay platforms (1-3) at Blackfriars are to be closed to allow the through lines to be slewed eastwards.

This was supposed to start in Dec 2008, but as I stated above it has now been set back due to delays in the stock rotation.

which in reality is the only one they can currently lengthen

Well Mill Hill Broadway is due next, and that shouldn't be too hard. The real fun starts when they shut the Moorgate branch to enable Farringdon station to be lengthened southwards. Moorgate has always been a handy place to keep 'Hot Spares' as wall as put failed trains when it all goes horribly wrong in the KX corridor. There will still be Smithfield sidings of course, but quite often that's already occupied. Additionally the closure of Moorgate means the loss of overnight central London berthing for 4 units; a significant factor when coupled with the fact that nothing can be berthed at Blackfriars either. I expect they're sorry they ripped up the DMU roads at Cricklewood now

I can only imagine the upheaval at St Albans!

Well of course the St Albans project has already started with the construction of the new multi-storey car park. Luton also is due for a knock down and rebuild, just as well as it also is pretty grim.