Smoke Detectors and Driver Comforts.

[swisstrains]

Are British diesel and electric locos fitted with smoke detectors and fire extinguishing systems?
I am asking this question as a result of an incident that occured in Switzerland during the "Gotthard 125" celebrations in September. A special passenger train laid on to shuttle enthusiasts between the two main exhibitions at Erstfeld and Biasca was being hauled by one of the modern Class 484 electric freight locos. As it was passing through one of the many tunnels on the Gotthard route it's fire detection/extinguishing system activated and the loco was shutdown. The train remained stranded, partly in the tunnel, until an older electric loco arrived to rescue it.
It appears that the Class 484's smoke detection system was activated by smoke lingering in the tunnel from two steam specials that had passed through earlier. The daily operating instructions warned against electric trains following the steam specials at less than 5 minutes headway but obviously this wasn't enough.
I was wondering if this could happen in the U.K. especially as steam specials on our mainlines are much more common than in Switzerland.

[martin adamson]

There is a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors on the 185s.

[Foghut]

Most safety system interventions on British traction can be over ridden to prevent the line being blocked (so long as the pertinant Rulebook requirements are complied with). I'd be surprised if a UK unit was stranded due to experiencing a spurious fire alarm activation.

But no doubt someone will come along shortly and give me an example where this hasn't been the case

[LesG]

Most locos that run on NR metals have a fire system that detects and can fire automatically, it can also be fired manually by the driver.

The exception, (of course there is an exception) being the GM locos. i.e the 66/67. These locos have a fire detection system but no engine room fire bottles to suppress any fire. The only equipment these locos have on board is one red extinguisher in each cab. Not to sure about the 57s as they are a refurbished GM engine in a class 47 shell. If memory serves me correctly even the 59s have integral fire bottles in the engine room.

The only thing to remember if on a loco the fire bottles do go off, we don't go into the engine room as the air is sucked out by the bottles going off.

Les

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by LesG

................The exception, (of course there is an exception) being the GM locos. i.e the 66/67. These locos have a fire detection system but no engine room fire bottles to suppress any fire. The only equipment these locos have on board is one red extinguisher in each cab. .......................................Les

That seems odd. The newest locos on the network have the least fire protection

[Shed Cat]

(Just idle speculation on my part, as usual)

Maybe the older locos have the Halon fire extinguising cylinders - which do require ventilating before you can go into the room or engine space

Halon is now banned, and nothing else works as well:- not even carbon dioxide. So maybe newer locos dont have anything fitted because there is no similar way of extinguishing electrical fires.

I bet the Swiss have a way. They are bound to be 10x more efficient.

[swisstrains]

=Shed Cat;11378.............................
I bet the Swiss have a way. They are bound to be 10x more efficient.

Not Always

http://www.john.p.whitby.btinternet.co.uk/11323.jpg

[swisstrains]

I have been checking through my books and magazines and it appears that some of the newer electric locos operating in Switzerland are fitted with heat detectors as opposed to smoke detectors.
Obviously the loco in my story must have had more than a heat detector for it to have been affected by the steam loco's smoke. Although it was a Swiss owned loco it was also equipped and certified for use in Italy where the fire regulations are much stricter so perhaps the fire-detection system was more sensitive than a loco only fitted with Swiss equipment?
The loco manufacturers don't name the actual firefighting material but it seems to be based on nitrogen/argon/carbon dioxide.

[LesG]

Originally Posted by swisstrains

That seems odd. The newest locos on the network have the least fire protection

There is an explanation for this but I don't want to go into that on a public forum just in case the explanation is a load of old bull and it comes back to haunt me at work

Les

[Foghut]

I wonder if it's anything like the story I heard about the Class 66 purchase options. Alledgedly the people at London Ontario offer 7 levels of cab comfort - needless to say most British locos have level 1. I expect the accountants over here have calculated that it's cheaper to medically retire a deaf driver or two rather than fork out on expensive sound insulation.