Secondman

[locojoe]

Whilst firing at Kings Cross I worked on both steam and diesel. It was in the early days of diesel traction and the diesels I worked on were Type 4 EEs and Prototype Deltic. Sometimes I would arrive at Topshed expecting a nice easy shift on a diesel only to find we had been allocated a steamer.

After steam a secondman was used on diesels but now all trains are single manned probably because of cost. I think a secondman today would be a good thing as it would allow younger men to learn the ropes more thoroughly over a period of time instead of training people with no railway experience. Any comments.

[John H-T]

It does seem to me that the period of training given to drivers nowdays is frighteningly short. I believe a matter of months.

I have some experience of driving on the EVR and there is a lot to think about, not least trying to give passengers a smooth ride!

During training I worked as secondman and this was, for me, a vital bit of the training.

Best wishes,

John H-T

[locojoe]

Hi John
A month sounds to me a very short time to train someone to become a train driver. I thought even in this day and age it might have been longer.

Steam was different and during the years spent firing all aspects of driving was learnt and as secondman the same thing.

I'm not saying let a person be a secondman for many years but perhaps a couple of years would be long enough to learn driving skills.

[John H-T]

Sorry locojoe I left the "s" off! It should read "a matter of months."

I thought I checked it before sending it! I will now correct!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

[60159]

I've only once had the pleasure of driving a loco (although it was 4472!) so I'm not in a position to know just how long it would take to become proficient with both driving and "the road". However, I'm a firm believer in the learning process sometimes referred to as "sitting by Nellie". It applies to almost everything we do. Best learning is on the job training and observing and being advised by a seasoned expert. Classroom has it's place but practical knowledge and experience can't be beaten.

Mike

[steam for ever]

A second man might also improve safety.

[pavorossi]

On the East Lancs we use a second man on loco hauled services, but not when we use dmus. I believe the main reason for this is that one of the main duties of a secondman (or indeed secondwoman) on the East Lancs is uncoupling the loco whilst running round, a role which obviously isn't neede on a unit.

[ROUGH TOR]

Ah yes.
You are quite right of course, but in these days of the pirateised "Micky Mouse" Railways it is unlikely to happen as their only interest is in money.

[48111]

When I started "down the shed" in the 1950s, I started as an engine cleaner, which not only involved cleaning engines under our very strict cleaning supervisor Bill Cundy, but also we used to go in to the fireboxes and replaces fire bars, then as we progressed we were employed on the Ashpit, and helping out on the coaling plant and then a bit further up the ladder we were sent to firing school, I went to firing school at Rugby.My very first firing turn as a passed cleaner was on the Arley banker with a super "D", it was a nightmare, really hard work and I went home saying I was packing the job in, but nearly 50 years later I was still there until I retired. But I know passed firemen that were nearly middle aged before they got to driver.
I dont think having a secondman is a bad thing, I totally disagree with this single man working, it should never be allowed, but like Rough Tor says, on todays railway it is down to money. I personally do not rate todays railway at all and have very little to do with it, but someone can be working in a factory one day and six months "down the line" can be driving trains at 100mph, that just cannot be right and no one will convince me differently.
Yes bring back the second man, absolutely. But that is why I do not have much to do with preserved railways either,because the Railway was /is my life, but I used to be a member of a Heritage railway and I used to go there and I had people who had never worked on the railway, they were office workers, painters and decorators etc etc and they were trying to TELL ME how to do the job !I dont think so ! I spent my life as a proffesional railwayman so that went down like a "lead balloon" !

48111

[Gandalf]

I assume it was your being told by amatures how to run a loco that caused the problem, or was it they did not like being corrected?
I only wish I lived 'just round the corner' since I can listen all day to people telling me how to do things I cannot do myself. and not knowing more do not criticise although may query (due to not knowing any better) what or why. That being said I often walk aweay from these 'experts' when I hear things that I know from experience are completely untrue.
Never mind I like reading of past expoits on the railways and promise not to disagree with what I know not about.
More tales from those who led a life pursuing a boy' dream.
John *G)
PS Great.......Great Grandfather in about 1860 was a platelayer (or similar) on the Eastern Railway or so the 1861 census informed us.