Memories needed Freightliner operations 40+ years ago

[Madcaravanner]

Hi Everyone

I need some information
I know that Freightliner ISO containerised freight started a long time ago

BUT
I need to know when they started on British Railways?
Where they Only Freightliner or mixed/ limited brands ?
what was normal train length?
what type of wagon ? 4 wheel or Bogie ??
What was normal haulage?
How were the containers transferred between train and truck inland ?

I'm trying to work out if they were around when steam was still in service or if they appeared shortly after as my addled memory keeps giving me an imaged of Double header Black 5's on 4 wheel wagons with 2 20 foot boxes and a Brake Van at both ends

Looking forward to a few answers

[DSY011]

Try this site for a start Gary. According to them the Freightliner concept go back to the mid-1960s


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Freigh...06230426079267

[swisstrains]

As far as I can remember Freightliner services started round about 1965. They used air-braked bogie flats from the start so haulage would have been suitably braked diesels or electrics.
The wagons were usually in permanently coupled sets of 5 with only the outer wagons having standard buffers and couplings so obviously train lengths were multiples of 5.

[62440]

Transfer from flat wagon to road trailer was by overhead cranes which ran on tracks of their own , with the capability to lift a "Box" as they were/are known, over a container stood on a wagon or trailer. Crane tracks ran the full length of the siding. Crane manufacturers included Stothert & Pitt of Bath, and Morris Cranes of Loughborough (my employer back then). Cranes were described in a similar fashion to steam locos, ie 2-4-2 or 0-2-2. this had NOTHING to do with wheel arrangement however, but described the number of tracks and road lanes spanned, ie, 2 road lanes then 4 rail sidings then 2 more road lanes. The crane rails were usually outside all the rail sidings and inside all the road lanes.

At the start there were a couple of small containers fitted out as Guards vans which were placed on the rearmost end of the last wagon, but due to protests re poor riding the experiment was quickly terminated and guards were allowed to ride in the rear cab of the loco. One of these guard containers has survived and is in the collection at York museum.

I think that what you have in mind with 2 black fives might be "Condor" which started about 1959 and ran Hendon-Glasgow. Metrovick Co-Bo's were the usual motive power but double headed 5's were used when Metrovicks were not available, or if Wellingborough/Leicester/Toton had to provide a replacement loco a 9f would usually get used.

Terminals. Stratford (London), Beeston (Notts), Leeds (Stourton), Holyhead, Willesden (London) spring to mind.

Hope this helps, if I think of any more I will post it here.

Regards, 62440.

[Madcaravanner]

Originally Posted by DSY011

Try this site for a start Gary. According to them the Freightliner concept go back to the mid-1960s


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Freigh...06230426079267

Ta
Already read this on Wiki very vague when it came to actual detail but found livery details on http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/fo-abcont.htm but I am still trying to work out if I can use 20' & 40' containers or whether I will need to use the older style of BR container

[Madcaravanner]

Originally Posted by 62440

I think that what you have in mind with 2 black fives might be "Condor" which started about 1959 and ran Hendon-Glasgow. Metrovick Co-Bo's were the usual motive power but double headed 5's were used when Metrovicks were not available, or if Wellingborough/Leicester/Toton had to provide a replacement loco a 9f would usually get used.

Regards, 62440.

Was the Condor a Standard Freightliner or was it the older BR only container traffic
such as this model of the Bachmann container which was Standard only on BR and not stackable

[62440]

Condor was the older style containers,20 footers on plate wagons I believe.

Regards, 62440.

[Madcaravanner]

Originally Posted by 62440

Condor was the older style containers,20 footers on plate wagons I believe.

Regards, 62440.

I've literally found the info on the Condor by accident and it is the older RCH containers rather than Freightliners which actually did have a train in the 60's from Manchester with MSC Containers in Red livery and Freightliner did one a day from Birmingham - the one you showed me the photo of Ta Bill
but as Freightliner wagons were all AIR braked then they were Diesel hauled

But I think the memory I have must be of one of the Condors with relief traction as apparently they were Double-headed Co-Bo hauled a lot of the time (which would make for an interesting display train at 25 units plus 2 brake vans behind 2 Co-Bo's if anyone is interested

Anyway this has given rise to the plan for some RCH containers on Bachmann single plank wagons and maybe a Bogie bolster and at a later date five FLA's with either MSC boxes or Freightliner boxes and may be even a Guards 10 foot box which is going to be fun to make (got the diagrams from http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/7-fops/fo-abcont.htm and a lot of other interesting stuff from there too

If anyone does have any thoughts memories I am still interested more grist for the little grey cells to mull over

[LNER]

Originally Posted by Madcaravanner

Hi Everyone

I need some information
I know that Freightliner ISO containerised freight started a long time ago

BUT
I need to know when they started on British Railways?
Where they Only Freightliner or mixed/ limited brands ?
what was normal train length?
what type of wagon ? 4 wheel or Bogie ??
What was normal haulage?
How were the containers transferred between train and truck inland ?

I'm trying to work out if they were around when steam was still in service or if they appeared shortly after as my addled memory keeps giving me an imaged of Double header Black 5's on 4 wheel wagons with 2 20 foot boxes and a Brake Van at both ends

Looking forward to a few answers

Hi all
As a young apprentice at British Rail Engineering at Shildon in 1965, I remember and worked on the construction of the freightliner rolling stock. There was a lot of aluminium welding required, and at that time Argon arc welding was something new to Shildon works. The braking system was heavy gauge copper tube with silver solder fittings. The fittings had to be heated up to a much higher temperature than your standard domestic plumbing fittings. Also an Emeto compression fitting (I thing that is the correct spelling) was used in parts of the system.
It is now some 47 years since I worked on the stock so memories are a bit thin on the ground.

[Madcaravanner]

Originally Posted by LNER

Hi all
As a young apprentice at British Rail Engineering at Shildon in 1965, I remember and worked on the construction of the freightliner rolling stock. There was a lot of aluminium welding required, and at that time Argon arc welding was something new to Shildon works. The braking system was heavy gauge copper tube with silver solder fittings. The fittings had to be heated up to a much higher temperature than your standard domestic plumbing fittings. Also an Emeto compression fitting (I thing that is the correct spelling) was used in parts of the system.
It is now some 47 years since I worked on the stock so memories are a bit thin on the ground.

LOL
Yes I'm reading that they came a a five vehicle set with only the outers having buffers which make the offerings of Bachmann and Hornby wrong so needing to have some alterations done when eventually I get my hands on them
Apart from that do you remember if the inner wagons and outers were different in many ways