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Washington train crash: Rail carriages fall on US motorway

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  #1  
Old 18th December 2017, 18:32
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Washington train crash: Rail carriages fall on US motorway

Two train carriages have plummeted on to a motorway in Washington state, causing a number of fatalities, police say.

The train derailed and the carriages fell on to the I-5 highway below.

Images from the scene show emergency services treating people on the ground. Amtrak confirmed there had been injuries.

Several cars on the highway were struck by the derailed carriages, the Pierce County Sheriff's department says.

Sheriff department spokesman Ed Troyer has told local media that there are fatalities and people still trapped on the train.

Among motorists caught up in the incident there were a number of people injured but no one killed, the department said.

Read it here>>BBC News


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Old 18th December 2017, 20:23
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Sad - Tragic event.
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File Type: jpg train 2.jpg (21.2 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by CrossBuck; 18th December 2017 at 20:26.
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Old 20th December 2017, 07:04
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The tain appears to be a Talgo.
Though the initial photos do present a tangled mess making identity awkward.
I didn't think that Amtrak had any Talgo sets remaining in service.
When in Germany, I rode der Nachtzug from Munich to Berlin.
That was the DB Talgo.
It flew, as do alle DB reisezuege.
But, being single axle, it found every frog in every set of points en route.
I do wonder at the high speed stability of the Talgo design.
Steve.
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Old 20th December 2017, 20:12
Captain Glen Captain Glen is offline  
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SEATTLE TRAIN CRASH IN DUPONT WASHINGTON

The track the AMTRAK southbound train was running on transitions from FRA class 4 track (80mph) to some crappy FRA class 2 track (30mph) just before the curve and bridge. There is no sign and there is no signal so the train orders would reference a milepost for the "slow orders" which would have been highlighted in red. These orders would have been reviewed by the engineer and the conductor; each would have their own copy.
The engineer should be reading mileposts well in advance to look for the point where the speed reduction would occur. The satellite images I have linked clearly show the crappy nature of the FRA class 2 track. My opinion is that there should be much better warning for such a drastic reduction in the quality of the track ahead such as signage or a signal.

BTW the track I was running a diesel on a couple of weeks ago between Bolder and Railroad Pass is FRA class 3 (60mph) and has two curves of about the same radius as the on at the AMTRAK crash site. When I ran a steam locomotive on the FRA class 1 track (10mph fright {me} and 15mph passengers) between Ely Nevada and Keystone I reviewed the the train orders with the dispatcher and the conductor. The Nevada Northern has three branches and the possibility of more than one train entering the yard; hence the need for train orders.
Many FRA class 4 tracks have similar curves but employ superelevation where the outer rail is raised higher than the inner rail is the same way a racetrack has banked turns. Since knowing the track is so important, I really wonder whether the engineer and conductor had done a dry run on the tracks together. Here is a link to the satellite view of the track:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.0826.../data=!3m1!1e3
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Old 20th December 2017, 21:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Glen View Post
SEATTLE TRAIN CRASH IN DUPONT WASHINGTON
My opinion is that there should be much better warning for such a drastic reduction in the quality of the track ahead such as signage or a signal.
You're right, of course. One of the first things they taught me as a noob to the railway is that.. "If it can go wrong, it will one day".

We've had some awful derailments at speed restrictions here in Blighty - most notably Morpeth in 1969 (link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_accidents_at_Morpeth )

After many years of faffing about, we arrived at a situation where whenever the Permissable speed reduces by more than a third (eg from 90mph to 50mph) there is an AWS warning magnet in the four foot and an upside down reflective triangle showing the new speed. These things are low tech, low cost and lifesavers. It's easy enough to know where you are on a Summer's day, but in freezing fog at night you can't see diddly out of the window sometimes, so can temporarily misjudge your location, especially if you're dealing with other distractions on the train.

And since TPWS (link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_...Warning_System ) was introduced, we have Overspeed sensors installed as well, which will initiate the emergency brake if the train passes over them above the trip speed.

Which is great. But I'm not being smug about this. There are hundreds of ways a driver/engineer can mess up, because that's part of being human. There, but for the grace of God, go all of us.

Best wishes, BW
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Old 22nd December 2017, 04:25
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Yes, forgetting or not knowing where you are can have dire consequences.
The QR narrow gauge Tilt Train capable of a maximum speed of 160 kph went bush in 2004.
Sitting on a track speed of 120 kph, it suddenly encountered a 60 kph curve.
ATP is featured on most of the QR north coast route, but I don't think that it extends the entire route.
Subsequently, an initial knee-jerk reaction imposed a maximum speed limit for the train of 100 kph.
But, today, the train is again permitted to do the 160 kph where authorized.
Time heals all wounds.
Air temperature can also impose speed restrictions, which is common to the entire Aussie rail network.
When temperatures exceed 38C, train speeds must be reduce due to potentially buckled rails.
Continuous weld rail might be economic, but can become spaghetti in extreme heat.
The QR do now utilize Speed Warning signs which indicate the reduced track speed encountered ahead.
These boards are utilized in addition to normal Track Speed boards which dictate each maximum section speed.
The Speed Warning sign placed on approach to a significantly reduced Track Speed board.
But, I doubt that any audible warning is associated with the boards.
The DB PZB system does factor in track speeds which are reduced to that being traversed.
Yes, ETCS and ATC can be elaborate enough to impose stringent operational checks.
But, if such a system becomes relied upon by train crew, what of the inevitable day of a system failure.
Road knowledge is still a vital facet of driver training.
Though, I don't think that I would impose the Japanese acknowledgement system.
Each and every signal, speed board and station stop must be saluted by the driver in acknowledgement.
Yes, here in NSW we were required to call the signals.
But, most old hand drivers told you to shut up and go to sleep and stop annoying them.
Ah, the good ole days.
Steve.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:28
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It's good to see some input from railway professionals on the forum once again.
Welcome to the forum Steve and welcome back BW.
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Old 24th December 2017, 09:22
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Thanks for the welcome back, John. I've been lurking in the background for a while, but felt it was time to start posting again.

Continuing with the topic(s)..
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussisteve
When temperatures exceed 38C, train speeds must be reduce due to potentially buckled rails.
Continuous weld rail might be economic, but can become spaghetti in extreme heat.
Yes this is a yearly event here too nowadays as the summers seem to get hotter. Even by 28°C we often get a blanket speed restriction imposed across the network.

As usual, the cheepskate media circus likes to laugh at us and make out that it's an outrage, but as Scotty used to say, "Ye canna change the laws of physics".

Quote:
Originally Posted by and he also wrote
Though, I don't think that I would impose the Japanese acknowledgement system. Each and every signal, speed board and station stop must be saluted by the driver in acknowledgement.
Does seem to be a bit severe, doesn't it? They've done research about it here in the UK, and psychologists believe that this method does reinforce short term memory and help maintain focus.

Consequently we've developed a watered-down version called "Risk Trigerered Commentary" (RTC) which is where we're encouraged to say things out loud to ourselves in situations which we perceive to be more dangerous than usual. Also it compensates for the effect of fatigue which always takes you off guard at times when you should be sharp. Some drivers detest RTC, but since I've always talked to myself it's no big deal.

It's a technique which is strongly encouraged by management, but not forced on us, and every driver applies it differently. My bugbear seem to be depots - I've had 2 near misses in them in 20 years and I still have dreams about it occasionally. So I always say to myself, "Work DOD to DOD". This is slang to remind myself that a position light/shunt signal only takes you as far as the next one or an obstruction (which might seem bleeding obvious to most people). The problem is that when you're winding through a complex depot where all the signals for that route are USUALLY pulled off together, you often can't see the next one until it's too late because of other trains or infrastructure. So although 99% of the time you could plod steadily through with no disruption, you must come almost to a stand each time until you can see what's there. My RTC reminds me to do that.

Also, when there's serious disruption on the main line and I'm running slowly on single yellows for miles I ask myself out loud after each one ..."where is the red". This is because there's always the risk that as the signal sections get longer and longer, you let the speed gradually build up and then get caught out by a short section with a red at the end. (You would have asked yourself this subconsciously anyway if you'd been running normally, but the repeating yellow aspects can destroy the natural rhythm).

Of course all of this is obvious and simple stuff, but you pass hundreds of thousands of signals in your career, and you only need to get just one wrong for the consequences to be terrible. It goes with the job of course, but unlike workers in many other occupations, we can't afford to have an "off day".

Hope this makes sense,

BW
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Old 24th December 2017, 14:45
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The initial NTSB report seems to infer a misinterpretation by the two crew members at the head end. The locomotives possessing both outward facing cameras and inward facing cameras with audio. The inward facing camera indicating that neither crew member was distracted by the use of electronic devices. The driver (engineer) made a comment about an Overspeed just prior to the derailment. Is this a track Overspeed, or a locomotive traction Overspeed ? An emergency brake application occurred, but it is not yet understood how this occurred and may have originated from the rear locomotive, the train being top and tail. Positive Train Control is being installed on the subdivision, but not yet in operation. The speed board indicating the curve speed is situated at a distance from that curve. The full NTSB report will probably take 12 to 18 months before publication. I am also waiting for the EUB report on the Bad Aibling zugkollision in Germany. Both should be interesting reading.
Steve.
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