Changes needed to passengers charters

[hstudent]

I think there are a few things in passenger's charters which need to be changed or added, such as:

* A standard fixed compensation for delays across all TOCs. Maybe 30 minutes delay entitles you to compensation vouchers to 50% of a single ticket or 25% of a return, 60 minutes to 100%/50%, 120 minutes to a full refund.

Currently Merseyrail only offer 20% on an hour or more despite operating a frequent local service, yet Transpennine Express offer 50%/25% on long distance routes. That should also mean that less passengers miss out on compensation that they are entitled to.

Also TOCs shouldn't be able to say 'if you were told of the delay/cancellation before you bought your ticket then you are not entitled to compensation' as delays and cancellations are an inconveince whenever you're told of them.

* If a train is too crowded to carry all the people who wish to travel on a journey then anyone who is delayed as a result of that should be entitled to compensation at the same rate. Also if a train leaves a station early due to the conductor's poor time keeping (that has happened on Northern Rail services where there is recovery time at certain services and request stops can be missed out, also making a train early.)

[hairyhandedfool]

Originally Posted by hstudent

I think there are a few things in passenger's charters which need to be changed or added, such as:......

......Currently Merseyrail only offer 20% on an hour or more despite operating a frequent local service, yet Transpennine Express offer 50%/25% on long distance routes. That should also mean that less passengers miss out on compensation that they are entitled to.....

I got 100% on my hour delay last time I used FTPE

Originally Posted by hstudent

.....Also TOCs shouldn't be able to say 'if you were told of the delay/cancellation before you bought your ticket then you are not entitled to compensation' as delays and cancellations are an inconveince whenever you're told of them.....

this is dodgy ground at the best of times. the reason they say this, is that although you may have to wait longer, it is still your choice to travel on the service.

Originally Posted by hstudent

....* If a train is too crowded to carry all the people who wish to travel on a journey then anyone who is delayed as a result of that should be entitled to compensation at the same rate. Also if a train leaves a station early due to the conductor's poor time keeping (that has happened on Northern Rail services where there is recovery time at certain services and request stops can be missed out, also making a train early.)

how do you prove it is overcrowded? or that as a result you had to wait? trains leaving early are quite rare in the grand scheme of things and you are expected to be on the platform in good time for your train, even then how do you prove it was early?

I know where your coming from but some of that is just unworkable

[robbo]

What happens if due to the delay you miss your / connection, flight and hence missed planned holiday abroad etc due to the delay . Should compensation for that be included as well?

[hairyhandedfool]

Originally Posted by robbo

What happens if due to the delay you miss your / connection, flight and hence missed planned holiday abroad etc due to the delay . Should compensation for that be included as well?

usual protocol would apply because planes are planes and trains are trains. and the planes would doubtless say you should have allowed more time to travel.

The real issue here is infact that people are in too much of a rush to get from a to b to c and back. they are too eager to get a train between 0730 and 0731 to go on a half hour journey in which they must arrive by 0800!

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by hairyhandedfool

I got 100% on my hour delay last time I used FTPE

TPE offer 50% of a single (25% of a return) on 30 minutes delay and 100% of a single (50% of a return) on 60 minutes delay.

this is dodgy ground at the best of times. the reason they say this, is that although you may have to wait longer, it is still your choice to travel on the service.

If you have to be somewhere for a certain time, you will be inconveinced because of a delay or cancellation whenever you're told of it.

how do you prove it is overcrowded? or that as a result you had to wait? trains leaving early are quite rare in the grand scheme of things and you are expected to be on the platform in good time for your train, even then how do you prove it was early?

I know where your coming from but some of that is just unworkable

Someone who turns up at for a train at a station and finds the previous train was servely delayed or cancelled can just as easily claim that they arrived in time for the previous service. (In the national press someone got a criminal record for finding out which trains were late and then claiming they were on them all. They got found out because they claimed to be on two trains at the same time!)

The conductor could record that the train left people behind at a certain station, so it's on the company's records that people should get compensation.

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by robbo

What happens if due to the delay you miss your / connection, flight and hence missed planned holiday abroad etc due to the delay . Should compensation for that be included as well?

No TOC would offer compensation for that. All I'm suggetsing is consistency. If a TOC uses a train that is too small to hold all the passengers wishing to travel on it then they are delayed for 60 minutes as a result of it, then they are delayed as a fault of "the railways", the same as a cancelled or delayed train.

[hairyhandedfool]

Originally Posted by hstudent

If you have to be somewhere for a certain time, you will be inconveinced because of a delay or cancellation whenever you're told of.

true, I can't disagree but that doesn't affect your choice to travel.

Originally Posted by hstudent

Someone who turns up at for a train at a station and finds the previous train was servely delayed or cancelled can just as easily claim that they arrived in time for the previous service.

The time and date of purchase is now printed on all tickets, but assuming you bought the ticket before hand, it is fraud, pure and simple.

Originally Posted by hstudent

The conductor could record that the train left people behind at a certain station, so it's on the company's records that people should get compensation.

As if he/she hasn't enough to do on a train that busy, I suppose he/she will take down names and addresses just to be sure!! Face it, it's unworkable.

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by hairyhandedfool

The time and date of purchase is now printed on all tickets, but assuming you bought the ticket before hand, it is fraud, pure and simple.

Only applies for the outward part of a return ticket, a saver or open return may not even state the day you travelled on.

As if he/she hasn't enough to do on a train that busy, I suppose he/she will take down names and addresses just to be sure!! Face it, it's unworkable.

I meant they just note that people who wanted to board got left behind. In my opinion TOCs must be aware if trains are too full for everyone to fit on so they can address the issue.

[hairyhandedfool]

Originally Posted by hstudent

Only applies for the outward part of a return ticket, a saver or open return may not even state the day you travelled on.

Hence the assuming you bought your ticket before hand bit.

Originally Posted by hstudent

I meant they just note that people who wanted to board got left behind. In my opinion TOCs must be aware if trains are too full for everyone to fit on so they can address the issue.

But in order for people to be compensated, the number of people left behind would not be enough. It would only serve as an indicator of how busy that particular service was, it could not take into account normal loadings, as services were delayed or even cancelled.

Imagine I arrive at a station to board my train, which is delayed, I see the previous train leaving filled to the brim and ten people left behind. I decide to claim I was getting that service along with the ten people who were actually left behind. If the company decides to pay out based on the conductors report, who do they compensate?

You can't expect a company to pay to anyone who claims based on a conductor saying it was full but ignoring the numbers involved, particularly if the next train, by any operator, is within an hour.

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by hairyhandedfool

Hence the assuming you bought your ticket before hand bit.




But in order for people to be compensated, the number of people left behind would not be enough. It would only serve as an indicator of how busy that particular service was, it could not take into account normal loadings, as services were delayed or even cancelled.

Imagine I arrive at a station to board my train, which is delayed, I see the previous train leaving filled to the brim and ten people left behind. I decide to claim I was getting that service along with the ten people who were actually left behind. If the company decides to pay out based on the conductors report, who do they compensate?

You can't expect a company to pay to anyone who claims based on a conductor saying it was full but ignoring the numbers involved, particularly if the next train, by any operator, is within an hour.

The point I'm trying to make is that, while any new compensation scheme that I suggested is open to abuse, the current delay/cancellation compensation arrangement is also open to abuse. Any way of trying to totally prevent any abuse would not work at small unstaffed stations. But why should anyone have to wait on a platform for an hour for the next train, when they arrived in time for the previous train and not be compensated for it?

You mentioned the next train may be a different operator. That's precisely why consistency is needed in passenger's charters. If an East Midlands Train service between Manchester and Sheffield is cancelled and you have to catch a TP Express one half an hour later, you won't get any compensation. If it was the TP Express train that was cancelled then you would get compensation.

You also need to remember that TOCs promise to offer compensation for someone who made a seat reservation and had to stand. That could create more complications than my suggestion. If someone claimed that someone else was sat in their seat and the conductor did not make his or her way through the train, what would happen then?