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Slightly interesting story...

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  #11  
Old 6th July 2008, 07:57
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Foghut Foghut is offline  
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I'm interested in these conversations even though I don't entirely "understand" everything as it stands but I like to pick stuff up and learn so it's all good.
Yes that's true for all of us. It's such a vast subject that there's always something new to learn. This forum is a handy place as there's such a wealth of knowledge on here.

When I emphasise the expression "with authority" I'm not suggesting any willful transgression. Because passing a signal at danger without permission (aka having a SPAD) is the BIG one on the railway nowadays, we always drop the expression "with authority" into the sentence because it makes it quite clear to everyone listening that you didn't SPAD it. I was actually having a little nag and trying to suggest that using this phrase is a good habit to get into - a question of semantics rather than an accusation of attemted manslaughter .

(For reference: There are situations where a driver can choose to pass a signal at danger without getting the signaller's permission, but when he does so it's in compliance with the Rulebook and is classified as doing it under his own authority - so he's still done it with authority).

HTH,
Foggy


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  #12  
Old 15th July 2008, 18:04
pavorossi pavorossi is offline  
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First of all, may I apoligise for not replying sooner, I've been on holiday and have only just rediscovered the thread, I can assure that I wasn't just being ignorant!

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Originally Posted by Foghut View Post
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to here. You haven't mentioned any specific traction type. Are you comparing disc brakes of modern stock with vacuum brakes of heritage traction ? If so there's bound to be a difference.


1) I wonder under what circumstances they use emergency braking on the East Lancs ? Running brake tests are usually carried out at full service brake or considerably less, as you're only looking for retardation. Emergency braking often causes wheel flats, especially on stock not fitted with wheelside protection (the railway eqiuvalent of ABS on cars) .

2) Where are you passing signals at danger ? And hopefully this is with the signaller's authority (though you don't say ) ?

TIA,
Foggy
Right, I was talking about the metrolink. And you're quite correct, i was comparing modern and old braking systems, a point I overlooked. On the East Lancs we use the emergency brakes when the line is obstructed, such as when we get kids messing about on the line. We also brake quite sharpish when a passenger deciedes to open a door after we've left the station. On the East Lancs we class that as emergency braking, but I don't know whether it techinacally speaking is. I've never known an East Lancs train to ass a signal at danger, although that's not to say it's never happened of course. I've been on trams which have been authorised to pass a signal at danger a few times on Metrolink, which is what I was referring to. I hope that clears things up, and once again sorry for the delay.
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  #13  
Old 5th August 2008, 13:21
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Metrolink and the ELR stuff is very different. Metrolink have several different types of braking system, one being Magnetic Track Braking, in the event of the tram passing a signal at danger these apply quite viciously, enough to throw you down the tram when stopping from 20mph to 0. Emergency braking when SPADing with authority on the metrolink is determined by the state of the signal. If the signal is ment to be at red, the loops will be energised and passing will cause a brake application. If the signal has failed right side (should be a green but is red) the loops should not be energised and so trams can pass without problems.

On the ELR more often than not the guard will make an emergency brake application, for instance a door being opened on a moving train after leaving the station. This is made with the emergency brake valve in the guards compartment, this destroys the vacuum in the braking system (or air preassure in air braking systems) and so, slams the brakes on. Drivers also make applications if they need to, good example would be discovering an obstruction on the line.

At this point I should say that passenger communication cords on vacuum braked stock. will not make a full applications of the brake, (unlike air braked stock) The brakes only apply half way, the driver stops the train when it is safe to do so.

Emergency brake applications are not to be taken likely and are treated seriously, altho admittedly i am responsible for numerous applications on the ELR when passengers open doors etc.

Hope that helps somewhat
Mark
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