Northern Rail Services

[John_142]

I have noticed that since the Northern franchise was brought in that the franchise seems to have alot of routes that in my mid don't really need to be there for exaple who would travel from Liverpool Lime Steet to Huddersfeild on a Northern Stopping Service when you could be there in half the time and in the comfrot of a More modern more comfortable train by Transpennie Express.

Is there such need for Northern to run such services of this distance when it would be mutch easier for it to turn back at Manchester and then fro people to travel to Huddersfeild by Transpennie Express or Local Stopping Service for intermidiate places along the route.

Such Long distance stopping services affect the reliabilty of the places were it serves Localy and the reliability of the train unit it's self as alot of prople would agree that 142's are built to operate Short Distance Local Stoping Sevices ie, L/pool Wigan & Warrington and 150's L/pool Manchester and 156's Built to operate Express Services to Manchester, Blackpool and beyond.

If Northern need to run Services of such distance then surley they should make them Express routes and Local Stoping Services within the areas were they are needed not a Stopping Service from Liverpool to Huddersfeild etc.

On a Sunday you have a Local Stopping Service From Liverpool to Manchester Airport now what is the need for this why can't Transpennine Express run to Manchester Airport on a Sunday or Northern Provide an Express Service.

In my book all this is penny pinching trains are over croded on this particular route on a Sunday even with four coaches om some journeys there is still over crowding and there is no need for it especially when the TPE trains are running half empty/full.

On week days Northern introduced 156's to Stoping services Between L/Pool and Wigan to reduce over crowding but the reson for the over crowding in the first place is due to the fact that Northern stopped the Express service calling at Huyton which in my exprence of daily use of this route Huyton is were the majority of ther people are going to.

So infact if the exprees service was to stop at Huyton then the overcrowding on Local Stopping Services would be gratley reduced and we would / could get 142's back and then this would free up 156's for more express work to places Like Huddersfeild.

Plus the other Services that should be cut back are L/pool to Stayley Bridge and Rochdale Via Oldham as there is no need for them especially in my book.

I don't know about thing like this in other areas but would like to hear your opinions and comments if simmler things with Northern in othjer areas and surgestions etc.

[martin adamson]

I remember before Nothern Rail there used to be a local stopping service from Manchester-Liverpool on a weekday (North Western Trains era), I remember being onboard 142 on this service.

I suppose the reason why Northern do that on a Sunday is to get more passenger demand. I bet there are not as many services running on the routes and stopping, so in order to keep passengers happy and get more on Northern Rail services, have a long route but stopping at more stations.

But we are getting better, First North Western ran a service from Manchester Airport to Blackpool North, calling at 18 stations! Madness! Now at least the Buxton ones are designated for the majority of stations and TPX have made them express.

[hstudent]

I think the reason for it is because most lines have extra trains in one direction only at peak times so trains aren't simply turning round and going back where they came from. From looking at the timetables for Liverpool trains there are a number of instances where it is quicker to change.

There is an 07:49 Stockport to Liverpool (orginating from Buxton) which arrives at 09:24. Changing at Oxford Rd means you can arrive at 08:58. Waiting for the next Liverpool train at Stockport (departing 08:27) means you can arrive at 09:29.

The Northern Rail 08:01 Huddersfield to Liverpool arrives 10:05 The TP Express 08:28 Huddersfield to Liverpool arrives 09:57 and calls at Stalybridge meaning passengers from Slaithwaite, Marsden, Greenfield and Mossley can get to Liverpool quicker by changing at Stalybridge. The reverse also appiles on some afternoon/evening trains.

[John_142]

There is a EMT service at 07.24 from Stockport to arrive in Liverpool at 08.29 mutch beter to travel on a 158 than a 156.

Bonkers if yo ask me.!

[John_142]

iam hopping to Travel to London next Saturday for a run round on L U trains and the way i intend to Go is Via Chester at 3am abd come back to Liverpool and rather than travel on a Rail Replacemrnt Coach Service from Crewe i intend to travel from Crewe to Manchester and then on to Liverpool with Transpennine Express.

Even thogh i have got a bit to wait in Manchester i would rater wait for a Class 185 than a claped out Northern Rail 150 / 156 or be uncormfortable on a 142 and Stopping at every Station when all you whant to do is Get there.

I think Northerns Services are far to Long and boring and the wrong type of trains used on the wrong routes all to Sqeeze the Last penny in to the profit.

[dlh1983]

There's also a morning Huddersfield to Southport via Manchester Victoria service which forms the local service from Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria, then the local service from Manchester Victoria to Southport it is not very quick. However, I don't think it's possible to race that train as the service from Manchester Piccadilly to Southport isn't all that frequent.

Arriva Trains Northern used to run a Huddersfield to Lincoln service which called at every station between Huddersfield and Sheffield. It didn't make going to Lincoln by train an attractive option, although going between Huddersfield and Sheffield by train isn't all that an attractive option as there isn't an express service, just a local stopping service.

[John_142]

I Would immagine that if you were going from Huddersfeild to Southport then The Quikest Way would be to take the Transpennine Express to Liverpool Then by Mersyrail to Sothport and have time to stretch your legs Between jorneys.

Northern seem to be Just Penny pinchers and dont work with praticlity were as Stagecoach and Arriva seem to run better Services with More pratical trians on the routes.

The dft Should give Stagecoach the franchise for the North West and North West of England including the Merseyrail Northern and Wirral franchise as serco / nedrailways seem to be a waste of space.

[tkboomer2]

When it was Regional Railways operating train services through Manchester Piccadilly they decided they wanted to try and avoid trains that were going to and coming from Oxford Road to terminate at Piccadilly, which kind of makes sense. For that reason they made trains from Chester via Altrincham continue to Southport after Piccadilly, as well as Buxton trains continuing to Blackpool.

If you look on a map of a route going Chester-Altrincham-Stockport-Manchester-Bolton-Wigan-Southport it isn't exactly very direct and people at Chester going to Southport would go much more directly using what are now Mersey Rail services. Although having a Chester to Southport service made journeys like Northwich/Knutsford/Altrincham to Manchester Oxford Road easier, as well as journeys from all stations between Chester and Navigation Road to Salford and Bolton.

Chester to Southport journeys were stopped in favour of Manchester Airport to Southport (obviously after the station opened at the Airport) and Chester to Manchester Piccadilly via Altrincham services.

[John_142]

Still no need for it really and in my Book it shold be back to basics.

[shymike]

john you really seem to be confused! Northern operate local services - of course if you were going Hudd to Liv for example you would use TPE Express service - the northern service is not designed for people to travel for people travelling from hudd to Liv it is for people travelling from hudd to Marsden etc etc!