142s now in Northern Rail Livery

[John_142]

142 034 Is Now In Northern Livery

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by John_142

Manchester to Chester seems like a long route they should have had a 150 on there of four coaches or if fast service then a 156.

The fatest any train runs from Manchester to Chester via Altrincham is 80 minutes which misses out 6 stations.

The slowest in the winter timetable is 97 minutes calling at all stations. However, the latter will be 89 minutes from Monday next week

[John_142]

Thats an hour and 20 Minutes on a 142 shurley something like 150 272 would be better on that route but Northern being PENNY PINCHINhers that they are that must be the norm.

But it must be quicker to get the TPE 185 or the EMT 158 to Liverpool and then the Mersyrail 507/507 to Chester in fact come to think of it it is in actually jorney time by train only 90 Mins compared to the 97 Mins but with it being reduced to 89 Mins it's only a Minute different but yet would be more comfortable to go this route ie via Liverpool than the one train. especially if 142's are the norm.

Today 04/12/2007 Northern operated 142 048 on the 13.27 express service to L/pool from St.Helens Ctl whilst a 156 operated the Local Stoping Service.
classic eample of penny pinching.

[John_142]

142 035 is another recruit to be painted into Northern livery not many more to go now surley out of the Merseyrail ones it only leaves 055 and 058 amd 059.

[tkboomer2]

Originally Posted by John_142

Well in my book nobody should be standing it should not be allowed Northern have no excuse for overcrowding trains they need to sort it out big time as one day something serious will happen and they will be the blame and then will they learn.

TOCs should aim for 0% standing on all services, if trains normally have people standing then something happening outside of the TOCs control can result in some passengers unable to board a train due to how crowded it is.

Some examples that have affected the passenger numbers on trains include fuel protests a few years ago resulted in some car owners unable to get enough petrol to get to work meaning they had no option but to take the train at a peak time.

Engineering works or industrial action can affect other services. Last autumn weekend engineering works on the Manchester to Chester via Warrington line (which has faster services between Chester and Manchester than the line via Altrincham) meant many passengers travelling between Chester and Manchester opted to use the Manchester to Chester via Altrincham service rather than the replacement buses that Arriva Trains Wales were running. The Manchester to Chester via Altrincham services are already quite busy on Saturdays and Northern decided to continue to mainly use 2 car 142s. This resulted in some Manchester bound trains arriving at Knutsford, Hale and Altrincham so crowded passengers were left on the platform waiting an hour for the next service in the hope that they could get on it.

Likewise when Arriva ran the Transpennine Express franchisee and their staff went on strike. Arriva ran a reduced service between Manchester Airport and York and no service between Manchester and Liverpool or Manchester and Sheffield. I think most people can imagine how crowded the Central Trains Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield-Norwich service was!

In contrast on the Transpennine Express service a lot of sporting events can draw extra crowds on the trains. Liverpool FC, Man United and the York races are all located along the Liverpool to Scarborough route. Before 185s were brought in I've seen on more than one occasion 3 158s joined together consisting of a total of 6 or 8 carriages in order to cope with the extra demand. It's a pity Northern Rail don't do likewise (and they do have trains not being used on Saturday as many of their routes get extra peak services on weekdays only.) In fact one type of fare promotion they have for tickets to Chester is not valid on racedays, which suggests Northern are actually trying to reduce passenger numbers on certain days.

[John_142]

142 093 was working on the 18.11 from Garswood to Liverpool Lime Street on Friday 07th Dec 2007 it had a 150 on the back and was actually a four car working.

A little unusuall for a train from Wigan to Liverpool at this time of the day !

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by John_142

But it must be quicker to get the TPE 185 or the EMT 158 to Liverpool and then the Mersyrail 507/507 to Chester in fact come to think of it it is in actually jorney time by train only 90 Mins compared to the 97 Mins but with it being reduced to 89 Mins it's only a Minute different but yet would be more comfortable to go this route ie via Liverpool than the one train. especially if 142's are the norm.

It wouldn't be quicker to go via Liverpool using 185s and 507/8s. Using TP Express you would leave Manchester Piccadilly at xx.07, arriving at Liverpool Lime Street at xx.58. You would then leave Lime Street at xx.28 and arrive at Chester at xx.11 Taking 2 hours 4 minutes and requiring two tickets to be purchased.

There's two routes between Chester and Manchester. The one through Altrincham (mentioned above) used to run express down what is now the Metrolink line between Altrincham and Manchester, it got diverted through Stockport since the line was prepared for Metrolink taking about 10 minutes longer.

The fastest way of getting between Chester and Manchester is to use the Manchester to Llandundno service which operates via Warrington. That takes 65 minutes between Manchester Piccadilly and Chester. However, both services between Manchester and Chester are hourly during the off-peak period so if you're travelling between Chester and Manchester and you've just missed a train that travels via Warrington then you would arrive 30 minutes quicker using the service via Altrincham (that departs both Manchester and Chester about 10 minutes after the service via Warrington), than waiting for the next service via Warrington.

It should also be noted that on the Manchester to Chester via Altrincham line Mouldsworth (the first station after Chester) to Manchester takes around 80 minutes, usually on a 142, and it would not be premitted to travel via Chester to Manchester without purchasing two tickets and possibly having a long wait at Chester. In the other direction Stockport to Chester takes 65-75 minutes, I think it's probably permitted to travel via Manchester on one ticket which would take 10-12 + 65 minutes + connection time, which may give you a more comfortable ride as usually 175s operate between Manchester and Llandundno. Between Stockport and Manchester you can catch 142s, 150s, 156s, 158s, 175s, 323s and Voyagers. Pendulino's do operate between Stockport and Manchester, although you can't catch them if you are making a local journey between Stockport and Manchester.

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by John_142

Today 04/12/2007 Northern operated 142 048 on the 13.27 express service to L/pool from St.Helens Ctl whilst a 156 operated the Local Stoping Service.
classic eample of penny pinching.

As Liverpool to St Helens is a shortest route I think it's reasonable to use the 142 and 156 that way round especially if they expect the local service to get over 100 passengers and the express to get something like 60.

[shymike]

To aim for 0% standing at all times is totally unrealistic - there is always going to be standing at peak hours as the economics of buying enough rolling stock and running services to accomodate everyone for a hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon simply do not make sense.

That said there does need to be a large expansion of services and strengthening of trains throughout northern - the only way this will come about is when the Department of Transport realises not everyone lives in the South east! The money spent and going to be spent on improving services down there compared to the north is an absolute scandal - i am sure if one employee of the DofT went to work on a packed 142 the money would soon be found!!

[G6 UXU]

Saw 142 058 still in Merseyrail livery today at Farington near Preston.

Chris.