Spain to ban drivers' mobile use

[DSY011]

Spain is introducing a ban on train drivers using mobile phones after a train crash in Santiago de Compostela that killed 79 people in July.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25206455

The train's driver said at the time he was going too fast and had been on the phone to a colleague moments earlier.
Drivers will, however, be allowed to use mobile phones in emergencies.

[Silver Fox Phil]

Another crash due to trains going at more than the speed limits allow. Phone must be a distraction just as they are in cars, so can't be a bad thing to ban them.
As I commented in the thread re the crash in New York, do our modern locomotives and power units have warning alarms and bells if a train is going faster than that permitted?
Not sure if they have?
Cheers
Phil

[Beeyar Wunby]

Originally Posted by DSY011

Drivers will, however, be allowed to use mobile phones in emergencies.

Here in the UK it's for individual Company Driving Policy (as opposed to a Rule Book requirement) to decide on use of mobile phones.

Many TOCs/FOCs issue traincrew with company mobiles. Most companys' policy requires the phone to be either off, or at least muted whilst in the leading driving cab.

In any case the Rule Book does state that a driver must not allow him/her self to be distracted by any communication device whilst driving a train - and of course that includes the radio fitted in the cab as well.

Mobile phones aren't all bad - they're excellent for situations such as a train failure, where (once you've stopped) you can call a fitter and get immediate information on fault finding. And of course they are the last resort under normal conditions if you can't contact the signaller via radio or SPT, or in an emergency

Originally Posted by Phil

As I commented in the thread re the crash in New York, do our modern locomotives and power units have warning alarms and bells if a train is going faster than that permitted?

Can't comment on USA or anywhere else, but here in the UK we have the much vaunted TPWS. At many places where there is a significant reduction in permanent Linespeed (as opposed to Temporary/Emergency speed restrictions) there are a pair of TPWS Overspeed Sense loops bolted in the four foot. If the train passes over the loops faster than the trigger speed, the Emergency Brake applies and you come up in a heap. Of course the loops have to be located far enough to the rear to be able to get the train speed down before the start of the lower speed restriction.

It is a Rule Book requirement that if the TPWS activates on your train you must call the signaller and not move until you have permission (and it also goes on your personal licence for eternity as a 'TPWS Intervention').

But there is no system which alerts the driver simply if they have exceeded linespeed under normal circumstances. In many cases Maximum Linespeed is set for signalling issues or acceptable longterm wear on the rails & P Way rather than being there being an immediate danger of the train becoming airborn !

BW

[Silver Fox Phil]

Thanks for the info BW, I thought we had a system like this. Wonder why other countries don't have the same or similar.
All the best
Phil

[HM181]

When EWS gave train crew mobile phones it was a new toy to play with, but as time went on problems started to appear of people had a mobile phone glued to thier lug holes.
It was bought in when on safety critical duties you had not to use your phones.
This included using a mobile phone when driving company vehicles.
As part of our job we had to use mobile vans to travel about in.
To me it was then when driving motor vehicles, my phone was switched off.
I would call the control once I was away from the motor vehicle, and not performing safety critical duties
Mobiles could not be used for communication when propelling 65 slu trains.
We had back to back radios for the job.In my view when on safety critical duites my phone was left in the compay van.
Once you had done safety critical duties, when not on about the railway was the time to make your calls

Safety Must be first priority of all employees on or about the railway

[Beeyar Wunby]

Originally Posted by Silver Fox Phil

As I commented in the thread re the crash in New York, do our modern locomotives and power units have warning alarms and bells if a train is going faster than that permitted?
Not sure if they have?

Ooops, I was so busy thinking about TPWS that I forgot to mention good old AWS.

Yes in the case of a reduction in Linespeed - of course you DO get an audible warning. (silly me )

On the approach to a significantly lower Permanent Speed Restriction (IIRC it's 30% or more) there will be an upside-down triangular warning board with the speed written on it, and an associated permanent AWS magnet. As with all AWS warning magnets, failing to press the drivers' cancelling button within 2.2 seconds will result in an Emergency Brake Application.

And...whereas TPWS grids are not provided at Emergency and Temporary speed restrictions, PERMANENT AWS magnets are.

But there is no system to tell you when you're overspeeding. Drivers don't speed deliberately because NR puts people out on the track with speed guns, and more importantly the OTMR (data recorder) logs everything you do. So any allegations by passengers or people who are lineside will be checked. And managers perform regular unanounced downloads also. So it would be silly for anyone to deliberately speed. AS my old instructor used to say, "There are no medals for getting there early, but you'll get the bullet if you do anything silly".

But the technology does exist for what you suggest.

Since modern trains (eg, Bombardier, Siemens etc) already have GPS receivers built into them and 'know where they are' for the purposes of SDO (Selective Door Opening - which is supposed to decide which doors to open on short platforms), it's a small step to program up a computer with the linespeeds to warn drivers that they are overpseeding.

The problem comes when you're on the Mainline and there are multiple lines all close together and with different speeds. GPS can be out by quite a few metres, and AFAIIA Differential GPS, which is a bolt-on enhancement to standard GPS (and is accurate to less than a metre) isn't available on the railway.

But I guess this is probably irrelevant, as the future of the railway is ERTMS. This is in-cab signalling, and the system will continuously tell you what maximum speed you can do, depending on the distance from the train in front. If you don't do what it tells you, it will stop the train. So that ought to be another improvement in safety.

There, that's a fuller to your question. Hope it makes sense.

[jayar]

Thank you for your enlightening and interesting information Beeyar Wunby, I have learnt a few facts I was unaware of.

[johnmoly]

I have seen clips on Youtube of French trains where a system alerts the driver and shows what speed they should be doing through a section they are approaching. Of course, as the driver knows they are being filmed they slow down.

[chuffchuff]

Originally Posted by johnmoly

I have seen clips on Youtube of French trains where a system alerts the driver and shows what speed they should be doing through a section they are approaching. Of course, as the driver knows they are being filmed they slow down.

That sounds like the In Cab system used on TGV and HS1. If they don't start braking
and keep the speed under the "Braking Curve" down to the slower speed, an
emergency brake occurs bringing the train to a stand, and much form filling happens

[Beeyar Wunby]

Originally Posted by Silver Fox Phil

Thanks for the info BW, I thought we had a system like this. Wonder why other countries don't have the same or similar.

Hi Phil, I'm told that the derailment in Spain occured where the modern Super-dooper high speed line changes to an older and slower one. It rather looks like there was a 'hole' in the safety system where the two lines met, as this could not have happened on the High Speed Line (so long as the relevant safety systems had not been isolated ).

BW