Loco haulage North Wales Coast

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by John_142

Its just that i got the impresion of them being un reliable tas didn't quite understand the post below !

If the Class 67 and stock takes over in the interim period you might be lucky but otherwise you're stuck with the ATW 175's or whatever your beloved Northern throws up.(frm swiss trains)


Can you explain in a bit more detail [please !

John,
Arriva Trains Wales are going to have a shortage of trains between now and next summer while some of their class 158's are out of service being fitted with ERTMS equipment.
Originally they were going to use a Class 67 loco (on hire from EWS) and four of their own coaches (one of which is a guards van) on some of the services between Manchester and Holyhead (Via Newton-le-Willows and Warrington). This would release a Class 175 which could then be used to free up other units to replace the 158's.
Because Arriva Trains Wales are now rumoured to be getting some Class 180 DMU's, the Class 67 and coaches might not be needed.

You asked:
"Is this the route that go Via Newton Le Wilows and Warrington and will there be a gaurds van for my bike ?"

I replied:
Don't get too excited John.
I said this because I thought you would regard a loco and four coaches as being better than the normal DMU's on this line and if it didn't happen you might be disappointed.

If the Class 67 and stock takes over in the interim period you might be lucky
Meaning.....If they use the Class 67 and coaches UNTIL the Class 180's are available THEN you WILL get a guards van for your bike but only if you happen to use one of the services operated by it.

but otherwise you're stuck with the ATW 175's or whatever your beloved Northern throws up
Meaning......If they don't use the Class 67 and coaches THEN you WONT get a guards van for your bike because ATW's Class 175's and Northern's DMU's don't have guards vans.

Does that make sense?

I still can't understand how I gave you the impression that Class 67's were unreliable

[John_142]

Thanks i just get confused somtimes, i would rather travel on any train what Arriva Trains Wales provides rather the clapped out ones Northern Provide.

Quick question what is the ERTMS equiptment and what does it do please !

[John_142]

Is there a reason why Northern can't do a simmler thing to ARRIVA and operate loco haulage Trains especially MAN Airport and Blackpool L/Pool Express !

[martin adamson]

Cost would be the main reason. It wold be a really bad operation for finance espdeically if the locomotive or coaching stock breaks down, which can be a disaster in the Manchster Airport area with the limited pltfrom space plus loads of services.

When Virgin XC hired out a class 90 and DVT, there kept being issues with the DVT breaking down, plus some of the coaches lost lighting so it would be a really expensive operation.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by John_142

....................Quick question what is the ERTMS equiptment and what does it do please !

John,
This is a very simplified description of ERTMS. It stands for European Rail Traffic Management System and is a way of controlling train movements without the use of conventional trackside signals.
It uses a type of mobile phone technology to inform the driver of the state of the track ahead and tells him/her what actions to take. The train is being constantly monitored by the system and if the driver does not respond correctly the train will be stopped. It's an attempt to devise a standard train control system throughout Europe and amongst other things it enables trains to run closer together on high speed lines and on single track routes such as the Cambrian in Wales.
Mobile phone type masts have to installed at regular intervals alongside the track and all the trains using the route have to be fitted with the ERTMS control system together with receivers and transmitters.
If you want to read up about ERTMS there is a website at http://www.ertms.com/default.htm

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by John_142

Is there a reason why Northern can't do a simmler thing to ARRIVA and operate loco haulage Trains especially MAN Airport and Blackpool L/Pool Express !

David has given you the main reason........cost.
Arriva only tend to use loco-hauled trains when there are no DMU's available for short term hire.
I heard today that ATW are definitely getting some Class 180 DMU's so the Class 67 and coaches will be very short lived if it even starts.

[swisstrains]

The Liverpool Daily Post carried this article on 4th Dec.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2007/12/04/bigger-trains-to-give-first-class-cardiff-service-55578-20198816/

[John_142]

Very interesting thank you chaps well worth a trip Between Manchester & Netwon Le Willows wether it is a 180 or Loco Haul which from what i read on wilkapedia the 180's don't go back to ANGEL Trains untill 2008 so Loco Haul may be short lived but will give pleanty of interest.

[John_142]

It woldent be two bad if Northern used Loco haulage for Blackpool but yet as you say it's the cost.

"Loco Haulage to Blackpool those where the days"

Question how can they Replace a six coach Loco Hauled almost full to the brim train Between Liverpool and Blackpool with a two coach 156 ?

[Dave.]

Surely though, TnT Class 37/4s and Mk3 stock must provide good performance?