Tram vs. Train

[hstudent]

When the Metrolink was introduced to Manchester two train lines were closed to facilitate the running of trams. These were Altrincham to Manchester via Sale and Manchester to Rawtenstall via Bury. This has meant that people in places such as Sale and Bury don’t have a National Rail service. This in turn means that if people from these places want to go somewhere outside of Greater Manchester on a train then they would have to buy a tram ticket and a train ticket. Combined tickets are available to/from rail stations within Greater Manchester but railcard discounts are not available on these.

The Bury to Rawtenstall line has now become a tourist line with a steam train running on it. Regular buses run from Manchester city centre to Rawtenstall. Trains from Altrincham to Manchester (which originate from Chester or Northwich) have been diverted via Stockport and take about 10 minutes longer.

The Metrolink cannot cope with large suitcases or bicycles. Food and drink cannot be consumed on the Metrolink and there are no toilet facilities on the Metrolink or at most Metrolink stops.

The only real advantage of the Metrolink is that it allows people to get off closer to where they want to be in Manchester city centre.

The following proposals have now been made:

Running trams to the airport.
This may allow people to get closer to a hotel in Manchester that they will be staying at or to a location for a business meeting. However, the lack of luggage space could cause a problem.

Extending the tramline to the east side of Manchester.
Apparently this was done on a temporary basis during the Commonwealth Games using old American trams. I don’t know anything about the success of this or if it would involve closing any train lines.

Running tram-trains from Manchester City Centre to Northwich, Chester or Crewe.
This would re-link Sale to the National Rail network and allow faster journeys between Altrincham and Manchester. I personally would like to see this happen provided they use Manchester Piccadilly as the terminus rather than Deansgate G-Mex as it would allow better interchange within Manchester.

What do people think of the Metrolink in general and these proposals?

[pavorossi]

As I'm from Bury I've got quite a lot of experience of the Metrolink system, and I personally think it's a waste of space. As for the proposals, I do think it would be useful for Bury to have a link to the airport again, I don't know East Manchester but if the roads are congested then I think that the Metrolink would be an advantage. But as to running tram-trains, I'm opposed to it, I believe it's easy enough to change at Piccadilly for a journey of that length.

Adam

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by pavorossi

But as to running tram-trains, I'm opposed to it, I believe it's easy enough to change at Piccadilly for a journey of that length.

The only reason tram-trains are being considered is due to congestion around Stockport. They would allow 'trains' from Chester and Northwich to go directly in to Manchester shortening the overall journey time and reducing congestion.

However, they would need to remain part of the National Rail Network and have facilities like luggage and cycle space and toilets that are currently lacking on the Metrolink, if they were to be successful.

[dlh1983]

As long as tram-trains ARE part of the National Rail Network they sound like a good idea. GMPTE think that offering combined tickets from stations within 20 miles of Manchester are good enough. However, they are expensive to purchase from outside of Greater Manchester and railcard discounts cannot be used.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by dlh1983

As long as tram-trains ARE part of the National Rail Network they sound like a good idea. GMPTE think that offering combined tickets from stations within 20 miles of Manchester are good enough. However, they are expensive to purchase from outside of Greater Manchester and railcard discounts cannot be used.

I thought that you could buy a ticket from any Network Rail station in the country to any Metrolink station.

[dlh1983]

Sorry, you can buy a combined ticket from any national rail station provided you don't request a railcard discount. However, if your journey starts on the Metrolink and you want to change to a train then the only type of combined ticket you can purchase is a zonal one to stations in Greater Manchester only.

It's Wayfarer tickets which can only be purchased within a certain distance of Greater Manchester. Some of GMPTEs literature is confusing.

[swisstrains]

Thanks for clarifying that.
It's yet another example of poor integration between different public transport operators. Even the combined ticket from Network Rail stations to Metrolink ones is hardly worth buying. It's only advantage is that it avoids having to buy two tickets but it is certainly no cheaper in my experience. I assume that it is Metrolink who won't give the railcard discount on their portion of the combined fare.

[dlh1983]

It's Metrolink that won't give the discount. However you can't buy a ticket with a discount on just the rail part.

I've also heard that while you SHOULD be able to buy a combined ticket from any rail station, most ticket office personnel who aren't from the north west area wouldn't have a clue how to issue a combined ticket.

[Jingling Geordie]

Tram v Train.

Am I being cynical or just naive but is the great joy of the tram really that you can control level crossings using no more than Traffic Lights?

What made me think this was a visit to Histon (to watch the footie.) and passing the site of the old Railway Station.

(Cambridge have opted to convert the once rail link to Huntingdon into a Tram Line.)

62430

[Deathbyteacup]

I know this is an old thread but;

The Bury to Rawtenstall line has now become a tourist line with a steam train running on it.

...This is quite the understatement of the ELR? And the ELR does offer cheap fares for local residents.

Running trams to the airport.
This may allow people to get closer to a hotel in Manchester that they will be staying at or to a location for a business meeting. However, the lack of luggage space could cause a problem.

Extending the tramline to the east side of Manchester.
Apparently this was done on a temporary basis during the Commonwealth Games using old American trams. I don’t know anything about the success of this or if it would involve closing any train lines.

Running tram-trains from Manchester City Centre to Northwich, Chester or Crewe.
This would re-link Sale to the National Rail network and allow faster journeys between Altrincham and Manchester. I personally would like to see this happen provided they use Manchester Piccadilly as the terminus rather than Deansgate G-Mex as it would allow better interchange within Manchester.

As for the Airport, I don't think it should happen at the expense of the current rail connection to the Airport, although perhaps to supplement it, although as you say the luggage issue makes no sense and may have to be addressed with the new trams that are on order.

As for the East Manchester thing, a seccond route through the city IS being proposed but is a long way off - it would however ease congestion significantly and I would welcome that.

Only a single San-Fransisco MUNI car was brought over to Manchester Metrolink and was never used in public service on the basis it didn't work properly.

The third "proposal" is a completely new one and I'm not sure where you got that one from. I've heard of no proposals for "Tram-Trains". They sound like a silly idea anyway.

As for the Metrolink in general, I think the system is in dire need of new trams but the frequency of the service far FAR outweighs that British Rail provided, let us not forget.