Traction 2020

[steam for ever]

Today I was thinking, although the majority of the UK rail fleet now centres around multiple unit trains, locomotives are still vital, especially in freight, special services (such as sleeper trains and charters), and in departmental work. Due to privatisation though, the process of withdrawing old locos when they reached the end of their lives and replacing them with new ones has broken down since the demise of BR.

This means we have a partly aged and mismatched fleet, with the oldest regular service loco being a class 20 dating from 1959. 9F steam locos were still produced AFTER this was built! Yes, class 66s and now class 70s have come some way in replacing the large stocks of first generation traction, but due to increasing demand, new locos have not been introduced fast enough in order to cope, leading older locos to be retained.

Primarily, the old locomotives in question are class 47s, 37s and 20s, with 08s, a few 31s and Southern region Electro-diesels still hard at work. With many of these locos reaching or topping 50, I imagine that sooner or later their numbers will dwindle further, and by 2020 I doubt many of the above will still be in service, although I admit the possibility for some to remain.
What new locomotives can we expect to see in this time?
What will they look like? What will they be designed for? Where will they be built?
This is the proposed topic for this discussion, and I'm sure several other members have had the same thought.

To begin with, we have the DRS Vossloh Light diesel locomotive:
http://www.rail.co.uk/images/3810/or...-will-look.jpg

[Silver Fox Phil]

Very true SFE, and a view not looking to bright for the manufacture of new locomotives built in the UK!
Pity really! Do you ever think that will change?
Cheers
Phil

[steam for ever]

Its hard to say about UK manufacture. As far as I'm aware there are actually more steam locomotives being built in the UK than modern locomotives at the moment! The only Diesel locomotive I can think of that is in production over here is the Hunslet 0-6-0 super shunter, and I'm not sure how many have been sold, but it certainly isn't many.
By 2020 though, I think we'll see a fair few more of those around, as 08s and 09s are becoming more and more difficult to maintain.

A big shame was the sale of Brush Traction to Wabtec. Yes, the Name Brush has been Retained, but sadly Andrew Barclay and Sons (Ownded by Brush) has had it's name eradicated entirely, and the Kilmarnock works is now known as Wabtec Rail Scotland. Hopefully the future will be bright for these two sites, but independant British builders are now looking very thin on the ground.
To be completely honest, privatisation of the nations raiwlays was a huge blow to home manufacturers (there were only a few left even then!), so if there is to be a resurgence, I think it will have to involve the industry rebuilding itself, almost from the ground up.
On the brighter side, Bombardier still operates Derby Carriage works and part of Crewe works, and whilst these places (mostly Derby) focus on the building of multiple units, the company does have success at building locomotives at their Canadian and European factories. I think it would be lovely if some of that experience was brought over here.

Many thanks for your input,
SFE

[Madcaravanner]

SFE
Nothing Mainline in the UK as orders for big stuff get sent out to the factories set-up to build them

Look up Class 68 it's a UK version of the loco's you mentioned
DRS have ordered 15 INITIALLY and the RCH has earmarked numbers 68-001 -- 68-050 for them

Builder Vossloh Valencia, Spain
UIC classification Bo'Bo'
Wheel diameter 1100mm

Locomotive weight 77.5 t (2/3rd full) 16-cyclinder
Fuel capacity 4000 L

Electric system(s) AC/AC transmission with four ABB Bordline CC1500 traction inverters

Engine type Caterpillar Inc.C175-16
Alternator ABB WCqx560pb6

Traction motors Four ABB 4FRA6063 (600kW)

Top speed 100mph ( 160 km/h)
Power output 3,750 horsepower (2,800kW)
Tractive effort 300 kN (starting)
Locomotive brake Disc brake, Electropneumatic, alsoDynamic (electrical) 2.1MW
Multiple working within class limited to 2 locomotives only

For Delivery *late 2013

[Tony]

If the TOC's can build a case for any new locos, they will be built! When BR was a nationalised industry the bosses thought of a figure and that many locos were provided. Private enterprise works to very different rules. Only if TOCs can work in unison will any large enough orders cause UK manufacturers bid for the work. If orders are for 10 - 15 units at a time, only established builders with "off the shelf" products would be interested, and they unfortunately are either European, Japanese or American, all of whom work to a different loading gauge and have to adapt their products.
I agree that by 2020 there will be a need for 500hp shunters, 2000hp departmental locos etc. and I can't see anything in the pipeline.

[Silver Fox Phil]

Also makes me wonder who will get the billion pound electrification contract for new hardware to on it? I imagine that too will go overseas!
Where did our world beating reputation of being the best disappear and when?
It is sad!
Phil

[steam for ever]

I guess this is another case for re-nationalisation. Pretty much everyone would fare better (apart from the shareholders). A more reliable and unified service, an opportunity for home builders to get their foot back into the door, and probably cheaper rail fares too.