TransPennine before the 185s
 

Hi I'm new to this forum and I'm mainly interested in information regarding my local route which is the North West section of TransPennine Express.

I frequently travel between Salford Crescent and Manchester and I'm surprised to see how full the 185s get - there's barely room to move in the peak hours and the situation doesn't improve much up to Bolton and Preston, still very busy.

Before last December we had 175s and I'm sure it was a mixture of 2 and 3 car sets. Does anyone know how many 3 carriage units usually went to TPE each day and which services they were booked on?

When I look at a crowded 185/1 between 4 and 6 pm on a Blackpool service, it makes me wonder how they coped when a 175/0 turned up.

They were part of a common pool with ATW so as such so it was a case of see what turns up. No units were designated as just for use with TPE. I hope this helps in some way

The 175s were originally intended for the North West and Wales when First North Western ordered them.

However Arriva took over the Wales services and some 175s were left here, but the majority were with TPX still on the Northwest runs.
As 222007 said there was do designated units so anything could turn up (even an Arriva liveried 175 on a TPX run).

TPX then introduced the 185s in 2006 whih phased out the 175 and all were handed over to Arriva.

I think regarding the situation wit crowding, one of the problems with the 185s is the fact that there are a lot more tables than there were on the 175s, also there are doors closer to the centre of the coach making a spacing problem for seating.

Cheers - I know some stayed at Barrow-in-Furness and Blackpool overnight.

How did they get them from Chester to NW routes each morning - did an Arriva driver take them there or did TPE have to collect the units themselves?

I saw the Arriva liveried units a few times, I guess once the branding was removed they were free for either TOC to use.

The 175s do seem to cope better with overcrowding, I've noticed the extra tables on 185s. That said I had to stand more than once between Salford and Bolton back in the 175 days.

When Wales and Borders took over the North Wales routes all the 175s were transferred to them and then subsequently Arriva Trains Wales. 11 were sub-leased to First North Western and then Transpennine Express for use on the Manchester Airport to Blackpool/Windermere/Barrow routes (and weren't used by Arriva Trains Wales until 185s were brought into operation, so I imagine they would have been stored with the other First North Western rolling stock and then later with the Transpennine Express stock rather than with the rolling stock for the north Wales routes at Chester.

Regarding the capacity on Blackpool trains this has been a problem for a long time. I remember boarding a Saturday First North Western Blackpool bound train at Stockport in 2000 and many people had to stand from Manchester Piccadilly to Preston. You need to remember that passenger numbers are increasing faster than extra rolling stock is being brought out, so it may not have been as made with 2 car 175s as you imagine. Although I imagine it could be very bad next summer with 185s replacing Voyager trains between Manchester and Preston and less trains overall.

Even those 4 car voyagers hace problems with capacity betwee Preston and Manchester, remember being on one that was crowded (but not over-crowded) so yes a 3 car 185 will have some issues.

Having said that I was on a Northern service from Man Vic to Blackpool and the train was not full at all (but then with the weather we had in July last year it doesn't suprise me :D )

I believe some 175s stayed over at Barrow and Blackpool, possibly Longsight but didn't a couple go back to Chester each night? It meant both TOCs could use each unit.

It was nice seeing the Arriva liveried units up here and they came up here a lot, 175110 inparticular seemed a popular choice on the Windermere run. It created some nice photos with 110's colours framed by the Fells in the background.

However, it seemed pointless repainting a couple a year before they were due to leave TPE - why not wait until the year after to avoid the confusion of seeing 'an Arriva unit' on a First/Keolis service.

Didn;t seem to make any sense the first repaint move, now ATW have changed the livery scheme to green/cream on the 175s (though I did like the previous one).

I find the 175's are always overcrowded on the wales run so can only imagine the TPE route. I remember heading to Rhyl from pic and standing all the way, which was nothing compared to the lady next to me, who had been standing on her previous train from nottingham.

why do train companies choose new trains with smaller capacities to take over services with booming popularity?

take MML for example, 2/3-car 170's heading from london to nottingham replacing HST's, only to be replaced by 4-car meridians with fewer seats per car. or for that matter Virgin xc!

And it doesn't help matters when they are forced to take 4/5-car voyagers off the the manchester-scotland service and run 3-car 185's

--rant over--

The North Wales routes aren't as crowded as the Manchester to Preston and beyond routes from my experience. Northern Rail are still using some 2 car 150s on their Blackpool services.