Locomotives, electric and diesel trains 1520-mm gauge.
 

Hello!

The length of public railways in Ukraine is more than 22 thousand kilometers, of which 45% is electrified. Two types of electrical systems are presents on the Ukrainian railway network (of the Former Soviet Union): Voltage = 3000 V DC and 25000 V AC (50 Hz). The AC-system introduced later. Also, diesel-electric locomotives many use on the railroads 1520-mm gauge (the diesel generator with the electric transmission is present).

The VL8 (ru: ВЛ8) is a DC electric dual-section locomotive for cargo trains.
The initials VL are those of Vladimir Lenin (ru: Владимир Ленин), after whom the class is named.
VL8 was in production from 1953 to 1967 at Novocherkassk Electric Locomotive Plant (NEVZ) and Tbilisi Electric Locomotive Plant (TEVZ) . The Donetsk Railway and Cisdnieper Railway of Ukranian railway use many the VL8, which are reliability locomotives.

G'day Poezdnik,
You're English is far superior to my Russian.
I don't understand any Russian lingo.
But, I do like the TEM style diesel locomotives.
Here in NSW we are having some EMU commuter trains built in South Korea.
The same company that built the recent EMU commuter trains for Ukraine.
The cars will be similar in design, though different in operation.
Our NSW overhead supply system is 1500 vDC.
Sadly, here there are only a couple of preserved electric locomotives remaining.
We had a fleet of 100 electric locos for freight and passenger train haulage up til 2002.
Only EMU commuter trains continue to utilize the overhead system here.
Steve.

Hello, aussiesteve!
Thank you very much for your a message!
The Russian - is hard.
I am wriyte a next post about the TEM diesel locomotive.

Hi Poezdnik, do not worry too much about your English, there are a lot of English people who no not speak English very well. Sorry aussiesteve but sometimes even I have problems working out some of the Aussie english lingo. Mind you, when I first arrived in the UK, I had to listen very hard to understand some of the English spoken in the UK. Still it would be a poor world if everyone all sounded the same. Viva la variety.

G'day Poezdnik and Syd,
I will look forward to the TEM post.
Reminds me of the WW2 donation of Alco locos to the USSR.
Then the home grown version emerging.
Yes, us Aussies pride ourselves on our Strine lingo.
Though, many regard it as vulgar.
Tower of Babel stuff in that we got so many lingos around the globe.
One does wonder just who invented em all.
Almost as many diverse signalling systems in use around the globe.
Yes, variety does make things interesting.
But, had Esperanto taken off as an international alternative, we at least could converse without translators.
Steve.

Hello!
DSY011, thank you for your advice! O.K.
aussiesteve, you intimate knowledge of USSR the locomotive engineering history!

The founder family the TEM ("TE Maneuver") diesel-electric locomotives is the locomotive TE1 (ru: ТЭ1), was build on a base the RSD-1 (ALCO Plant (USA)), it have under the name DA (ru: Д А) in USSR. The locomotives TE1 was of the production of the Kharkov Transport Machine-Building Plant (HZTM), in 1947 - 1949 (on photo, the TE1 into the Moscow Museum of Railway, Russia).
TEM2 - most popular in past, shunting service diesel-electric locomotive. They was of the production of the Bryansk Machine-Building Plant (BMZ) and Voroshilovsky Slag-Building Plant (VZOR), in 1960 - 1975 (on photo, do not working already a TEM2 locomotive, in Kharkov region).
TEM15 - popular shunting service diesel-elecric locomotive. Locomotives was of the production of the Bryansk Machine-Building Plant, in 1987 - 1995.
TEM18 - modern shunting service diesel-electric locomotive. They also was of the production of the Bryansk Machine-Building Plant. Is beginning in 1992.
TEM19 - of the latest design, Russian shunting service diesel-electric locomotive. It can filled dry gas fuel (on photo, the TEM18 and TEM19 locomotives on the Moscow Exhibition of Railway, Russia).

Crikey, that TEM19 is an interesting shape.
I have heard some of the older TEM versions in video clips at You Tube.
I am after all an Alco nutter, my most fav loco designs.
I also am wondering just when that knuckle coupler design originated.
It is very different to the standard USRR knuckle coupler.
Steve.

Hello, aussiesteve!
Yes, the SA-3 (ru: СА-3) knuckle coupler be used for do automatical coupling carriages on the gravity hump (photo below).

Did I read that the gauge was chosen by the Russians to deviate from standard to make life difficult for any invaders into what is the most invaded country in the world.

Hello, hereward!
Yes, a Russian history defined chosen the gauge.

Dobri dyehn Dmitriy,
There are a couple of versions about the Russian Railway gauge.
I don't believe the one whereby when the Tsar said that he wanted a railway, his engineers went to Germany and measured the gauge.
From the outside edge of the rails and not the inside edge.
I find that difficult to believe.
But, regardless, the difference in gauge did save Russia from easy rail borne invasion.
It is also interesting that the French were chosen to advise and initiate construction of the Moscow Metro.
Steve.

Hello, Steve!
Thank you for your a greeting on Russian :) !
As far as I know, first a railroad of Russia was build to 6 foot gauge. Later, was build to 5 foot (1524 mm). It was chose by the technical and economic assessment. In 1970 it was confirm on 1520 mm.

The VL80 (ru: ВЛ80) is prominent a AC electric dual-section locomotive for cargo trains.
These enjoys the accolade of having the longest production span of any Soviet electric locomotive. All variants of the series were built at the Novocherkassk Electric Locomotive Plant (NEVZ).
The first VL80-s were characterizing by their mercury arc rectifiers. Later, they were replaced with silicon ones, thus giving birth to the VL80k (ru: ВЛ80к) series. The "к" stands for "кремний", the Russian word for silicon. It been produced in 1963 - 1971. The first VL80k-s were headlight round of a buffer-beam, they is still do working on the Ukrainian Railways.

G'day Dmitriy,
Cyrillic characters are awkward, as are any character accents, for my humble computer.
I hate to think how complex digital communication would be in Chinese and Japanese.
The Russian signal system intrigues me.
As does any railway signal system.
I am also curious to know how long ago, that the Russian railway removed the "brake van" (caboose) from the rear of freight trains.
Here in NSW, the guard's van was gradually removed from freight trains from 1986.
Steve.

Good day Steve,
Latinic characters is available into all the computers, luckily.
Last the "brake van"on the USSR Railway was used 1950 - 1960. The
compressed-air brake be use after 1960.
The Russian signal system is big a topic, named "SCB" (ru: СЦБ). It
use the bug torch, be controlled from the automatic controls on the
relay and electronics unit. The bug torch is shown on photo (the
real and my a miniature :) .

G'day Dmitriy,
The last Russian brake van was back in the 1960s.
Crikey, so two man crewing on Russian freight trains began in the 1960s.
I do have some information about the Russian signal system.
But, it is very different to the system that I am used to here in NSW.
The East German DDR signal system was apparently adapted from the Russian System.
It is likewise confusing to me.
Though, I do constumble (understand) the basics.
Steve.

Good day Steve,
I am do not working on the railway (in a industry, the engineer of electronics and embedded systems).
There is some information about the Russian signal system is here (English) :
http://scbist.com/railway-automation-abroad/

Also, come my a site (in Russian) : http://poezdnik.at.ua/

Spahseebah Dmitriy,
I will check the www links out when I am next at the local library.
Steve.

Hello!
M62 (2M62) - most popular and reliable in past, a diesel-electric locomotive. They was of the production of the Voroshilovsky Slag-Building Plant (VZOR), in 1965 - 1988. Also, was exported to many Eastern Bloc countries as well as to Mongolia, North Korea and Cuba (on the photos 3 and 4, the 2M62 locomotives do transport to Mongolia Railway).

Hello!
D1 - popular in past, diesel-multiple unit train. They was of the production of the Ganz - Mavag Plant, Hungary, in 1964 - 1988.
DR1a - most popular, diesel-multiple unit train. They was of the production of the Riga Carriage-Building Plant, in 1976 - 1998.
ER2r - most popular, DC electric-multiple unit train. They was of the production of the Riga Carriage-Building Plant, in 1979 - 1984.
ER9m - most popular, AC electric-multiple unit train. They was of the production of the Riga Carriage-Building Plant, in 1976 - 1983.

Preevyet Dmitriy,
I have been scrounging around in the web links that you gave.
Google has translated the basic web pages, but the downloads remain in Russian.
I will check these sites out each time that I am here at the local library.
FREE WWW at the library.
I have also squizzed a you tube video clip featuring the D1 dmu.
Interesting.
Steve.

Hello Steve,
Thank you for your attention!
On photo, the D1-001 railcar of rare device. It do transport a manager of the Donets Railway.

Hi All!

I am new here and wanted to know more about the batteries on electric trains, what type they are ( lead acid or nicad) how big are they? do most electric trains use the same type or are there lots of different ones?

I may seem like a strange request but it's something i find interesting so any and all information would be great.

Bob

I don't know, but lead acid and Nicad are old technology these days.

Do you mean traction batteries ?

Hi,

Lead acid and NiCad are very much still an active and used battery, my understanding from researching online is that most electric trains use them for initial power/ stand by power.

I just didn't know exactly which ones do and manufacturers etc.

Thanks for the response, it's good to see that people are helpful here and dont just ignore posts.

Hi Bob.

Really? What are your sources? I suspect you may have been looking at heritage traction.

I don't quite understand what you mean by "initial power, standby power". Presumably you're referring to the standard 'Auxilliary system' of 120 volts dc that all diesel and electric traction units in the UK have? A generator for diesels/ or converter for electrics supplies this voltage and the batteries are connected in parallel. If the converter stops (usually because traction current is interrupted), the batteries continue to supply 120v for a limited period. But this does not feed the traction motors!

In the majority of cases, batteries are not usually used for traction on mainline units, and are only the sole form of power in an emergency (to supply low level stuff like emergency saloon lighting, head/tail lights, and cab radios).

There are some prototype units that use batts for traction, and the new Heath-Robinson 'hybrid' units can travel a short distance on batteries, but most electric trains need to be connected continuously to either turd rail 750v DC or 25kv ac overhead traction current to function. Air is the lifeblood of every train, and air compressors are usually supplied from traction current, NOT batteries. So normal trains don't sit on 'batteries only' as they will lose their air, and the brakes will eventually fail to work.

AFAIAA all modern traction has used (at least) NiMH batteries for quite some time. From my experience, certainly the Bombardier & Siemens units, and the ubiquitous class 66 locos do.

HTH, BW

Hi Beeyar,

I have recently been privileged enough to be up close and personal with a few 350 Siemens electric trains (inside battery trays, these are NiCad batteries) and was advised by them that the batteries are used when not connected to the overhead line to get them going and shut off once in motion and connected to the overhead line, I am talking here of course soley about electric trains not diesel.

The battery is used for a very short period of time, which i suppose would contribute to their long life.

I have little knowledge/experience of trains and my latest experience has sparked an interest hence my question.

Bob

Interesting. I'm really surprised if NiCad batteries are being used.

The toxicity of cadmium and the problems with anything other than full cycle working (memory effect) made NiMH batteries a much better alternative .

But, I suppose, industrial sized wet NiCad batteries are another matter.

You guys will have waaaaaaaaaaay more knowledge than me about trains, is the 350 series an old build?

What do they use instead on modern electric trains? this is really interesting.

Bob

Hi again Bob

Well everyday is a school day, as they say. :)

You're absolutely right, and I googooed this linky....https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/ba.../47363.article

As you say, they're doing the 'Flex' thing and moving the units around on their batteries. On a personal note, this makes me really get hot under the collar.

How typically British to throw money into researching a bodge when we should be spending it on fixing the problem - making the UK fully wired. There are several 'hybrid' projects running which are soaklng up £millions. The UK government has ordered hybrid trains for several routes and dodged the issue. Nice work if it's your company getting the action.

Most western European countries electrified after WW2. Here we are 75 years later still procrastinating. Not really surprising, just very disappointing.

Grrrrr, ;)

Cheers BW.

Completely agree that we are totally behind the curve...... by a country mile!

Seeing as you are shocked at this application, i take it this isn't the norm for electric locomotives?

Bob

Well in my experience, mainline trains moving themselves around by using their batteries is the exception. I've never seen it in 21 years as a driver of electric-only trains

The trains I sign never did. Here's a list of them...

Class 313 (AC/DC) Moorgate/Hertford Loop/ECML (East Coast Mainline)
Class 317 (AC only) ECML & London Midland
Class 319 (AC/DC) Brighton Mainline / London Midland
Class 321 (AC only) ECML / Great Northern
Class 365 (AC only) ECML / Great Northern / Great Eastern
Class 377 (AC/DC) Brighton Mainline / London Midland
Class 387 (AC only) ECML / Great Northern / Great Eastern
Class 465 (DC only) SouthEastern Suburban
Class 466 (DC only) SouthEastern Suburban

Obviously traction motors require hundreds of amps to make them turn, and up until recently most electric train batteries have never had the capacity (or need) to do that.

I suspect that technological advances in battery capacity have made it possible to have a charge/weight ratio that is credible. Old fashioned Lead Acid batteries would be so heavy and take up so much space there wouldn't have been much room for passengers. If you look at the Tube's shunting locos, they're all batteries and motors!

On "traditional" electric passenger trains, batteries aren't required to pump out too much energy. When the train has been cut out (ie, completely shut down) they're used to raise the pantograph or lower the shoes , and then once the train is running on the juice they just provide 120v for the auxilliiaries when the current is interrupted by going over gaps (DC) or through Neutral Sections (AC).

They don't normally need to provide alot of energy. If a train is stranded without traction current you don't expect the batts to give you more than about 30 mins of emergency lighting and PA. And no heating, brrrrr.

My rant really was that whilst moving trains round without being juiced up is not completely new, it does seem to be on the increase. Nothing wrong with that per se, except that it shouldn't be necessary because the whole country should be wired.

Cheers, BW

Hi Beeyar,

Thank you for your response, you have imparted a lot of knowledge which i really appreciate, you clearly have a lot of experience.

So, if my understanding is correct them most trains have batteries they are just used in different ways, so for emergency standby, aux power etc etc?

I find this all quite interesting, I wish there was a lit somewhere of all the electric train types, manufacturers and battery setup.

regards,

Bob

Yo Bob.

As I think this thread shows....times they are a changing.

To sum up, in the past batteries only provided support, in the form of getting the train started and then providing 120v backup for the control voltages, lighting, etc, when traction current was briefly interrupted,

But new state of the art trains are making use of modern high capacity batteries to provide traction current, albeit over relatively short distances for the moment. Don't forget that there are also hybrid trains which have electric suply (CRE/overheads) as their main traction, and a small diesel generator to crawl around with where the juice runs out. These wretched things are very ungreen, as they're dragging loads of weight around for both diesel and electric equipment.

The spirit of Heath-Robinson is alive and well in the 21st century. And all because stupid politicians can't agree to wire the whole network.

As to a source of information, I guess that traction manuals are about the best chance, if you can get them. Ebay is a good source, but don't pay too much.

Best wishes in your quest, BW.