The only delay clause Northern have in their passengers charter is:

If a delay to a Northern service adds an hour or more to your journey, we will offer you National Rail travel vouchers to the value of at least 50% of the fare you paid for that journey. The vouchers are available for use on Northern and other train operators' services.

Northern have got a snotty generic email they send you if you complain about delays of under an hour occuring on a regular basis.

Mots Northern stations outside of PTE areas are in a very shabby state. Shouldn't technically a rat infested station be closed until the problem is addressed or is that only after environmental health officers visit?

Hi thanks I used to work for the Rail Passenger's Council on the Southern Committee so I am still quite well up the complaints procedure. Because of the delay they caused my journey to be two hours late, I was unable to get the connecting service to Lincoln and had to wait for nearly 90 minutes on a rat infested dirty station . I will expect compensation and if not I will go through the appeal process!!

Its a shame about Northern. Although they have bad trains until the bad weather struck punctuality was mostly of a good standard.
Until october/ november when it began to go haywire trains on the mid cheshire had an excellent record. The latest train was 6 minutes late.

This weekend I have noticed a significant difference to the allocations for the line. There is now only 1 142 on the mid cheshire and a few 150s have been replaced with 156s.

There is much happening here now. I am partly happy that the 142s have all but been withdrawn but I might well miss them. They were good for sight seeing with those massive windows. With one left which is due to be withdrawn I must say that I am not pleased with 150s being used at all on the line. Fine for urban stuff but not for rural journeys. There are now 6 156s I think on the mid cheshire including the named 156420 "La'l Ratty ravenglass and eskdale railway" On the whole good job Northern but just clean your flippin trains please!

On pondering could the 150s be replaced with the odd 158? In the mornings the 150s are not even coming lose to coping.

Are you saying the line is to become Sprinter only or that Saturday is to become Sprinter only? We do have one of the busiest Northern lines out of Piccadilly on Saturdays and during school holidays so using a larger unit is an advantage. The 142s are certainly not being withdrawn from service as Northern don't have anything to replace them with.

We currently get a unit switch in the early evening on weekdays to get the pair of Sprinters that have run the 15:07 Chester to Manchester service on to the Buxton line and we get a 142 that arrives from Newton Heath to run the 17:09 Manchester to Chester service.

That's a complicated issue. When Northern took over they sent all the First North Western 158s to Leeds and sent all the Arriva Trains Northern 150s to Manchester. No Northern 158s currently go to Piccadilly so crews haven't retained traction knowledge of 158s. However, Victoria drivers do sign 158s and the Manchester to Chester via Altrincham route and reguarly move the stock for the line between Chester and Manchester (via Warrington) at the beginning and end of the day but Victoria guards don't sign our line so despite the fact Victoria drivers sign the line 158s can't currently appear on the line.

On the buxton line then they may be used for an increased service. Any timetable doublings?
Today I managed with a bit of waiting to get on the last 142 I have seen on the line.
The number is 142005.
There has been a 158 in recent years on the mid cheshire.
There are often a lot of diverted services and I did see a 158 (not in northern livery) heading to chester. I saw this at Altrincham.
They would cope better I am sure of that. Where driver experience is concerned the 156s is very similar. This class is used currently on this line.
If the oldham loop has lost 142s and the mid cheshire has got one (from what was many more)- where are they going?

Also the trans pennine services used to be 158s and that was only a year or two ago.
This was frowm may platforms at Pic.
The sprintr family are all very simialar. The only exception is the 159 which is southern region only and the trains are much longer so there is a difference in performance.
The 156 and 158 are almost identical when it comes to size (two car sets of course) and the engines are very similar too.
If driver training in this country is of any good standard then it should be like riding a bike. Forgetting is not an option (although this would explain a lot of late trains) and if such an occurance was to come around then someone is not doing their job properly.:)


PS: I can't find any record of angel trains owning 143s/144s. Do the train operators won them is is there another hire company?:)

S.F.E., If you refer to my last post on this subject I did explain that most of the 143's & 144's are owned by the Porterbrook Leasing Co.

There are 3 Leasing Co's.

Angel Train contracts.

Porterbrook Leasing Company Ltd.

Forward Trust Rail. (Originally Eversholt Leasing)

Most (Not All) of the ex-B.R. Locos and Rolling Stock went to these three companies at privatisation.

Hope this helps.

Regards, 62440.

I really don't know what you mean by the 'last' as there's at least two Pacer diagrams assuming no Sprinters get swapped for 142s. Yesterday (Tuesday) a Sprinter diagram was indeed run by a 142 (the 15:17 Manchester to Chester and the 17:07 Chester to Manchester is usually a 150 but was a 142 yesterday.) In addition some of the usual 142 weekday workings remained as 142 yesterday such as the 08:07 Chester to Manchester service. As I've said before we get an extra 142 on the Mid-Cheshire line in the evenings when the pair of 150s used on the 15:07 Chester to Manchester service are swapped for a 142 at Piccadilly so that the 17:09 Manchester to Chester service is a 142 that's been in the depot for most of the day.

Most likely an Arriva Trains Wales Manchester to Llandudno service during engineering works on the Warrington line, although only one or two Llandudno services are usually 158s as most are 175s - the type of train we used to get on the 065x Chester to Manchester via Altrincham service when it continued through to Oxford Rd and back to Chester via Warrington.

156s are still based at Manchester, 158s are not so they just don't bother having Piccadilly drivers learn them. Leeds based 158s do run Manchester Victoria - Leeds and York-Blackpool services so Victoria drivers still do sign them.

I think that's a common misconception that all Oldham services were 142s. They were actually a mix of 142s, 150s, 153s and 156s. In FNW days they were mostly all 142s but Northern put more Sprinters on them. The units released from the Oldham Loop are being used to strengthen Victoria-Rochdale-Leeds services.

That's assuming all the drivers learnt 158s in the first place. It's quite a while since 158s were transferred to Leeds so any new drivers won't have learnt them in the first place. It sounds stupid but a driver or conductor have to have training as to where things like the fire extinugisher, first aid boxes and all the doors are and can't sign a unit until they've been tested on it.