British Transport Police - Rail Enthusiasts
 

I am a Sergeant with the British Transport Police; I would be interested in the thoughts and opinions of forum members on this topic and would welcome responses as it would be very helpful at this stage.

The British Transport Police is looking to pilot a new scheme on the rail network called Railway Watch based around the North London Hub stations and covering the network out from London.

This scheme is intended to be similar to those already running at the major UK Airports and centres on Rail Enthusiasts becoming members of the scheme and helping to combat terrorism and crime on the rail network by raising awareness and reporting suspicious activity. Members would have a distinctive ID card on a lanyard with the idea that this would show Station Staff and Police that the holder was a member of the scheme while on the railway.

I recognise that the Rail Enthusiast community is well placed to notice such activity and as a group, understand the railway and are committed to its safe running. I see this scheme as a unique opportunity for Rail Enthusiasts to become part of the wider Rail family and to be recognised as the valuable resource they are when taking part in their lawful hobby.

Do you see this as a good idea and would you want to become a member?

I would appreciate your views on this scheme and would be pleased to answer any questions you have about Railway Watch, I am currently on shift and will aim to answer all posts at the earliest opportunity.

My first impression is, what a brilliant idea.

If I were in that area I'd be signing up for the scheme.:D

Sounds a sensible scheme. I would be willing to participate

Good lets have a national scheme. Those of us not in the London area do visit the area occationaly.

Sounds like a good workable scheme on the face of it. Any initiative that will combat crime, vandalism and theft has to be good for all our communities and I would be happy to join such a scheme to make a difference.
In the past I have been a leading member of setting up a factory watch scheme in our area following serious theft by break-ins and vandalism from units on our small industrial estate. The overall effect was an almost instant reduction in crime; and by our continued efforts we have maintained a more secure environment all round. So I know these incentives work.
Good luck with your quest and I hope it succeeds.

Hello and first of all welcome to the forum, I have been a member of the LAAS scheme for quite a few years now and it works very well I visit Heathrow and other London airports on a regular basis. A similar scheme for the rail enthusiasts would be very welcome but like LNER states it would be great to have a national scheme. Many thanks and good luck with Railway Watch.

Hello Rail Watch and welcome to the Railway Forum. I also think it would be a great scheme if it was nation wide. Rail Enthusiasts also visit a number of places along the tracks and many smaller stations in the country where theft and vandalism also take place. I'm sure that we would cut down the size of the problem even if we don't stop it altogether. I would be glad to join.

Hello Railway Watch, At last a sensible suggestion to encompass the rail enthusiast fraternity within the security and safety envelope. I should think that the vast majority of enthusiasts would want to join such a venture, knowing they would be welcomed instead of sometimes being viewed with suspicion as now.
Where do we sign up?

As said before great idea where do I sign. Should be extended to cover the whole of the country.

Most people would go for this. It makes a lot more sense than the negative attitudes over the last few years. I'd sign up. I wish you well.
mickey

Me too it would add creditability to our presence and stop the jobsworth interfering with our hobby

Welcome to the Forum RailwayWatch. Sounds a brilliant idea. Count me in if the scheme reaches Derbyshire.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

If I see a theft taking place or for that matter ANY criminal offence taking place, then I report the matter as soon as practicable to the appropriate authority, who I presume will take the appropriate action.
That's what all decent minded people do and I am a member of that club, which I am sure many are.
I am afraid I do not need a distinctive I.D. to carry on with my civic duties.

great idea were do we sign up

I think it is a great idea and should be rolled across the UK. I live in Wales and we also get problems with thieves pinching cables, vandals putting items on lines etc. I would be more than willing to join.

I posted a reply on here yesterday, but notice it HAS for some strange reason, since been removed??????
:mad:

Many years back I was spotting at Euston when I saw an ECS pull out with the last door in the train open
I walked down the ramp and used the trackside phone to report it
the signaler was gratefull ....I dont know what happened!

Looks like this is getting the support you were looking for. You mentioned the British Transport Police as setting this up in and around London. I imagine to roll this out countrywide would incur some costs?
Where will these costs be applied i.e. would individuals pay for an ID card and so contribute to the admin of such a project? I also imagine that a database would be setup to monitor all potential memebers and locations across the country. Who would manage this aspect.
I am for such a project as I believe in halting the thefts and vandels that cause us so much pain, including in the heritage community; so could this sector be included in anyway as I cant see the BTP having any power in the Heritage scene?
Just a few thoughts and I welcome your views
Regards
Phil

Fantastic idea.
If it were nationwaide, I would certainly join up. :)

This is a Rulebook designated safety issue, so the signaller would have been obliged to inform the driver, either;

* Over cab radio if the train had one
* Stopping the train on a danger signal so that the driver would have to get down & use the SPT.

Either the guard would have gone back & secured the door, or if it was ECS there may have been no guard so driver may have had to do it.

Either way, you did EXACTLY the right thing. (A purist might argue that you shouldn't have gone down the ramp without PPE, but in the terminus platform area trains are limited to 15 mph - and you were dealing with a much more important issue since if a door hit someone on a station the outcome would have been horrible). Good call :)

Railway Watch BTP
 

I would like to first apologise for not responding to the posts sooner, my shift commitments have prevented me from attending to this sooner.

Can I say how pleased I am by the responses to my original post; your support and comments are appreciated and helpful. I would like to respond to them by explaining a little more about the intention for this scheme.

This scheme, whilst still being proposed, is designed to include the Rail enthusiast community, you present an alternative and attentive resource on the Railway It is not intended that membership of this scheme means you actively tackle crime, but that it is more like the Neighbourhood Watch and Airport Watch schemes currently in place where members report suspicious and criminal activity directly to the Police. I would not recommend any person tackle criminals but to call 999 and report the incident to Police. Also, this scheme is about being vigilant to all suspicious activities, it is impossible to say what a terrorist looks like but it is important to remain aware of suspicious activity that might be connected to terrorism.

I appreciate your comments regarding this being a London Based scheme, at this time, we are looking to Pilot this within the BTP London North Area with a view that it could become a national scheme. (please see our website for this map (http://www.btp.police.uk/about_us/ar...don_north.aspx)

I am aware that in the past, Rail Enthusiasts have been challenged or prevented from photographing while on Railway Property, I hope that this scheme and the use of visible lanyards and cards will help create a more cooperative relationship between Enthusiasts, the Railway and the Police and that membership would show that you were committed to keeping the Railways safe.

This would not be a card that you have to possess to take pictures, and having an ID card and Lanyard would not provide any extra access, privilege or authority but it would show who you were to Rail Staff, showing you are part of a scheme aimed at making the railways safe environments and taking part in a lawful pastime. Providing personal details to Police to be a member would mean that, in the event of serious incident or crime, we could appeal directly to members for information.

Thank you for taking the time to respond

Hi Railwatch, Sounds like a good scheme. Please keep us informed of any developments.

Looking forward to seeing how this all turns out. Looking forward to progress and I would definately take part. In fact we can all take part now, by always being vigilant and reporting suspicious activities. I know I would if I saw something that did not feel right, I think we all have a gut feeling when we see something wrong. Reporting it to the police would be the right thing to do.
Regards
Phil

Will follow progress with interest and hope the project reaches Derbyshire.

Please keep updating us.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

I will echo this John H-T anything that shows us the authorities don't see enthusiasts as trouble is good by me

It seems my area is covered by the plan...bring it on

I looked at the website and could not find anything on the proposal .keep us posted please

Railway Watch
 

Thank you for all of your responses; it seems that the proposal of this scheme is striking the right chord with many rail enthusiasts and that it is seen by many of you as a positive idea.

Railway Watch is a British Transport Police initiative, it is still in a proposal form at this stage and I am looking at how we can bring it into action. As such, we don’t have any specific information on the BTP web pages at the moment but I am working on this.

I am looking at piloting this scheme in the london North area but I can see how much support there already is for other areas, I hope that if we can take this forward, it can be rolled out across all areas.

Thank you for all your posts, I will keep you updated.

Many thanks and good luck, I hope that it comes to fruition like the one I have for the airports in the London area, it can only be good for everyone involved, we can all be the eyes and ears and try to make things safer for everyone that uses our railways.

Good Evening and Welcome, after reading all the posts I ahve to agree, I visit North London several times a year and although have never had any problems, have been refused access at Euston before. In Plymouth I have given photographic evidence to Police of a tresspass incident which lead to an arrest and I would be more than happy to support the Police- I always inform staff about smoking on stations.

I would love to hear more about this scheme and hope it takes off nationwide as it is something that could be very worthwhile

Dan

I dont like spotting from Euston station
the best place is go along the road on the right hand side first left there is a slope road into the station , prob former taxi road
low wall at the top and a full view of the enterance to all lines

At Euston I always went to the end of the easternmost platform - you can see clearly everything that comes & goes from there, it being considerably longer than all but the westernmost platform. :)

Hi Serge. What a great idea. I am in my 60s just about to retire and will then be able to take more photo,s on the railway. I would deffinatly become a member of this sceme if it goes nationwide allthough i do take photo,s all over the country now. Baz

Seems a great idea to me and I would most certainly join if it expanded countrywide.

What a brilliant idea,Count Me In,!!!.

Great idea, please include me when it reaches Yorkshire.

I would also very happily sign up. Good idea.

Hi

Glad to see your presence on the forum, and that finally, someone in BTP is prepared to take the initiative on what is a harmless hobby. Let's not forget that we are also recording on film (some of us!) and as digital images, what will be history in 5, 10, 15 years time.

I've had a leading involvement with the issues over railway photography over the past 5-7 years, and the lies and myths perpetrated by railway staff (and occasionally) BTP that taking photos was banned.

Some years ago I investigated the scheme that's used at airports, and suggested publicly that a similar scheme could be adopted for enthusiasts. Only recently, a railway photographer prevented a suicide, so good can only come from this scheme.
During my investigations, I spoke to one of the police behind the airport scheme, and it transpired he was also a signalman on a heritage line, so well aware of the issues for both types of enthusiasts.

Last year, The Railway Magazine, which has been proactive with the injustice of being told 'no photos', suggested a card scheme, and while the magazine's campaign was good, the message about photography being permitted has been getting through to front line staff, and the problems have subsided.

That said, I'd welcome a more open chat with you as I feel I have something significant to contribute. Perhaps you can PM me?

I think that is a brilliant idea, I would sign up to that

Alan

Allow me to add my support to this scheme.

It's certainly true to say that countless railway enthusiasts and photographers (myself included) have been the victims of confusion, prohibition and lies over the years; in-spite of having every intention to co-operate with members of staff pre-confrontation.

I'm thrilled to see that the BTP are considering of taking some initiative towards this issue and would be more than happy to give my support to the suggested scheme.

Count me in!! Always a pleasure to help "The Bill" on the railway!