Replacement of 142, 143 and 144?
 

As an almost daily traveller of the now almost 1/4 of a century old 14X series (namely 142/143 on ATW) i'd love to known when they're being replaced - and possibly what with?

I can't think of any current DMUs suited more perfectly than the 142/143/150 used on south wales commuter lines, so what would fit the bill and when would you more informed folk expect they will be replaced? (I read somewhere that they could be in service for another 10 years!)

Hello Folios,
I don't know the answer to your question but do you think they need to be replaced?
I know that many people don't like them but as an occasional traveller on "Northern Trains" 142's I find them quite acceptable for short stop/start journeys.
Like you, I would be interested to know what plans there are to replace them......if any!!

They're alright for the city line/coryton line (I live a two minute walk away from Danescourt station, so it's only about a 10 minute ride into central) - but at the other end of the spectrum as I mentioned in another post, the other week they used a 142 that shouldn't have been in service from cardiff to maesteg.

After Bridgend the track goes onto the maesteg branch line, and part of that track is of terrible quality.. the bumps can be felt quite strongly even in a 158, and to ride that track in a 142 quite frankly felt dangerous, all in all it's not that I feel they need to be replaced right now but when would you more knowledgeable rail enthusiasts think they would be replaced and with what?

Yes,
When I said that the 142's were acceptable for short journeys I should have added "on good track":)

Class 142/144
 

I remember going back a few years now, just before the summer session of loco haulage commenced in 2002

ATW decided to roster a "Pacer" on the 1205 Swansea - Fishguard Harbour, how everyone got on I don't know but I found it to be very comical, going up the incline out of Swansea and also on the single track section from Clarbeston Road to Fishguard Harbour which was then bolted track (don't know if its still is :confused: )

Still I must have been the only passenger with a smile after being on it for nearly an hour and a half :D

Best Wishes

James

They had a 142 from Cardiff to Swansea the other night, was absolutely packed to the rafters (was 5.30pm).. on leaving central my train (city line) ran along side it for about a minute and they didn't look like happy bunnies :rolleyes:

I have been in a similar situation myself, this is usual coming in and out of Manchester, I was arriving on a not so busy pendolino into Piccadilly, and as some of you will know the VT services use platforms 5 to 8 usually, and the Norhtern rail terminating serviuces use platforms 1 to 4, so arriving beside us was a 142 that looked quite busy, Im pretty sure there were people standing.

Remember this happening another time on a 390 when it was 'racing' against a 185 into Piccadilly.

Actually I discovered today that the ATW service to Swansea only is normally operated by a 153 (went on the 15:14 one today), so it wouldn't have made much of a difference :rolleyes:

I had seen it reported that Arriva were looking at class 170's with a lower gear ratio and probable 3+2 seating. This could work i think. Or how abouts a siemans product - fair enough the 185's are extremely heavy but surely something simular and lighter could be produced for ATW Northern and FGW?

Found it on wikipedia -

At the end of the day it's down to cost too. There are a bunch of ex Wessex 158s being stored somewhere, why not bive ATW these as replacements? Because it costs more than the pacers. They will hav to find something that is cost efficient. They could do the FGW idea and have capacity efficient seating e.g. more airline seats, but I this may prove unpopular with passenmgers, but the 142s don't have tables. Perhaps using this idea with the stored 158s or having the 3+2 seating idea might work here.

At a meeting on 3/3/2007 a spokesman for Arriva Trains Wales said:

..........An additional 9 class 150s were due for delivery in Nov 07 for use in South Wales with platform extensions to be provided on the Valley lines.

I don't know if the 150's are intended as a partial replacement for the 14X's or in addition to.:confused:

Platform extensions are already done, and ATW are already using 9x ex FGW (wessex trains "Visit xxxxxx" liveries - maroon/postcard photographs) on all current services bar the long distance ones.

In that case.......Either you are getting 9 more 150's next November or the Arriva spokesman is a bit behind the times.:)

haha, perhaps.. perhaps.

If you wondered what a 142 was like on corners - I made a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcuFgaxUdQA

If I close my eyes I can almost imagine being on a Swiss metre gauge train threading
it's way through the spiral tunnels in the mountains. Attachment 128

Northern have started to replace there 142's with 158's.Its reported there recieving 30 158's with 24 142's going into warm store at Heaton depot

Thanks for that 222007. It helps explain why I saw a Northern service (normally a 142) being worked by a 158 in Arriva livery on Saturday.
Obviously Arriva Trains Wales didn't consider their own excess 158's to be suitable replacements for their 142's...............or are 150's just cheaper?:D

For anyone interested there's a website that will tell you which unit is allocated to which company and its status

http://www.thejunction.org.uk/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdare_railway_station - Says there that work has been completed on extending the platform, as have all other stations on the valley lines. Quite often two 150s in multiple are used on valley lines services.. and if the platforms weren't extended then they couldn't :)


As to the 9 150s, quite possibly.. I made a mistake - it was only 8.

That information isn't correct as the ebbw valley line won't be ready, and they are using the 150s on all services except for those west/north of Swansea, and up to Manchester (and beyond) except that it is 8 150s and not nine.

According to Wikipedia Northern Rail and Arriva Wales are the only train operators that still use Pacer 142s, with Arriva Wales only having very few trains.

If are on a 142 between Navigation Rd and Stockport you need earplugs from the amount of noise they make when they go over 60mph.

Northern Rail are apparently now planning to replace SOME 142s with 158s formly used by Transpennine Express or Central Trains.

Slightly less than half of Northern Rail's trains used to be operated by the 'Arriva Trains Northern' franchisee and they haven't bothered to repaint the trains. So the train was probably not a former Arriva Trains Wales service.

On a similar topic, I am annoyed that the 175s perviously operated by First North Western all went to Arriva Trains Wales when they redid the franchisses. They've even left most of them in First North Western's dark blue colour!

The train was a former First North Western service.

If it wasn't for the 175's Arriva Trains Wales wouldn't have a decent train.:D

Having just caught this thread,

All I will say is this, I trained as a driver with the Cardiff Railway Company and I worked the valley lines for the next three years and I don't think the
14X series should be on the tracks at all.
From a drivers point of view they are the worst unit I have ever driven but as has been said they are ok on long welded rail but an absolute garbage ride on the short sections.

Les

It will never happen as they are cheap to run and maintain. They would have been replaced if that Wilmslow crash a few years back had involved passengers as the loss of life would have been horific.

Northern Rail use former Arriva Trains Northern trains on former First North Western routes. One train which I usually catch (a train from St Annes on Sea to Greenbank arriving 09:14) it quite often consists of a 2 carriage former First North Western train attached to a 2 carriage former Arriva Trains Northern train.

What do you actually define as a short journey? There are routes like Doncaster to Adwick where the total journey duration is under 15 minutes, while there are other journeys defined as local e.g. Chester to Manchester via Altrincham where the journey takes about 90 minutes, which is defined as a local route but 90 minutes would be a long time to spend travelling on a 142.

Sorry going to have to correct you there First Great Western (FGW) also have a limited number of the units also

I absolutely detest any of the 14x series as a former guard at Leeds and Harrogate I had my fill of them all in the early 1990's they are long overdue replacement and were a step backwards from the conventional DMU's they replaced the sooner in the scrapyard the better, what an embarrasment they are if any of my colleagues from other European railways ride on them let alone see them.
A class 31 and 4 mkII's is a much better quality train .

Arriva occasionally use them on the "swanline", the service which stops at every station on the line from Cardiff to Swansea, on a 153 that takes about 75 minutes so really wouldn't appreciate being on a 142 for that long.

The longest journey i've been on a 142 was from Cardiff to Maesteg as there was a signalling failure at severn tunnel junction so the train from gloucester was delayed.. unfortunately this 142 apparently couldn't go above second gear so all in all it took far longer than it should have.

They're really not much fun to ride when at full capacity (or more) at rush hour.. bring back the class 37 hauled trains!

(off topic, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GwOzaUZ_ZE is a video of a class 37 going through my local station.. about 2 minutes walk away)

From what's stated on Wikipedia which I know may not be 100% accurate First Great Western have 7 Pacer 143s but no 142s

Northern Rail normally use platforms 11 and 12 for diesels. Electric trains have to obviously use platforms with overhead wires. Transpennine Express normally use the lower number platforms.

I would have to strongly disagree with the above statement. During the early 1980s I regularly travelled on first generation DMUs. I have travelled on most classes except the class 124s. With the exception of class 110s the acceleration on them was hopeless, the ride quality was appalling and a ride on a 104 was like bleakhouse! Despite all the problems when first introduced I viewed the introduction of the Pacers as a welcome relief!

It is also worth pointing out that other European countries do have railbuses, although the Czech railways recently rebuilt some of their DMUs with bogies.

Apparently the pacers are due to be around untill at least 2012