Brand new mark 3s?
 

I know that quite a few members do not real Rail magazine for a variety of reasons, but I would strongly reccomend the purchase of the current issue.

The Editor had explained that a new build batch of mark 3s could solve many of the country's needs railwaywise. Nigel Harris did point this out last issue, and this issue there is a storm of agreeable letters on the subject.
He says (and others) they are more comfortable than MUs, stockcan be added or taken off when required, and this would provide a use for all the DVTs lying around. Above all according to Rail it is cheaper.
Being cheaper is possibly going to break the ice here.

Will we see loco hauled trains in the near future?

(P.S: In case any info is incorrect, don't blame me I didn't say it. :D)

Then all we will need is a flood of brand new ETH fitted loco's to haul them.

I don't think there would be enough 57s,67s or leccie loco's around.

37s very few and far between.
47s as above but as rare as hens teeth
58s Can't remember if they were fitted or not but again none about.
59s 60s and 66s not fitted

Leccies never been passed on so can't say

My thought, It would be nice to see some nice comfy driver friendly loco's brought into this country.

There is one other problem, The bus companies that currently run the provisional services, i.e FIRST Scotrail, Arriva trains etc do not want thier drivers learning big loco's as this leaves the door open for the drivers heading off to the freight side where the wages are better.

Les

A new batch of locos as you say, but another issue brought up in the magazine was that the stock should be british built, and so should locos. I think a few places can still do the work, such as Brush traction and Brush Barclay. Those jobs are badly needed.

[QUOTE=steam for ever;51609]A new batch of locos as you say, but another issue brought up in the magazine was that the stock should be british built, and so should locos.

Completly agree, but we just have to look at the British built class 60s, the teething troubles that they had and the few that are still still in traffic are having and how old are they. Now look at the Yank crap thats going about now after 66001 came in and went through the railtrack testing programme, the rest, and the 67s came over on the boat and straight into traffic with minimum fuss.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of 66s and 67s,the most noisy,uncomfy dirty heaps of TIN you can get, For reliablility though they are second to none.

So if a new loco was to be built in the UK then the reliability has to be there as well.

Les

Another thing put in rail is a completely british desined and built train, from the same bloke that designed the penolinos.
http://www.extravaganzi.com/wp-conte...ry-Train_1.jpg

Not a loco, but the pendolinos were (and are) very successful, and that was british thinking there, even if they were not Brithsh built. All that is needed is to use the same logic on diesel traction.

Britain has the potential to do it, but in the last 30 or so years the "cutting corners policy" has emerged in what is left of our industries. To my mind this is down to the constant attempts to turn the UK into a tertiary country. It hasn't worked, and so here we are.

Ah right, looking back through rail, someone said that the few class 67s out there, along with the DVTs could provide a better service (less crowded) on the Manchester to bournemouth crosscountry service, leaving the present super voyagers to go where they could do some good, like the liverpool to Manchester line.

mk 3,s
 

In Modern Railways Roger Ford suggested Mk3,s plus Trakx locos from the continent a sensible solution to the problem.Lets hope that the DFT are taken out of the equasion and the franchises are left to organise their own trains.Incedentilay Roger Fords column is an excellent source of information of what is happenning in the real world boiling frogs and all!Rail mag is a reasonable mag I have read since it started and found it to be a useful source of info etc so whats the problem. Certain of the other mags are not so good.

mk3,s
 

Pendilinos uncomfortable ,smelly loos that dont work,buffets that are useless.Try sitting on a pendi standard class plank to Glasgow!Also they are very noisy give me Mk3,s anytime.

I quite agree. The only good thing about Pendolinos is that they are fast.

Me too awful trains aircraft on wheels:mad:

The point about adding and removing additional coaches mentioned in the original 'Mag report was an odd one; it's unlikely that this would be realistic in the true sense due to the logistics of it - the time factor, the stabling issues and the problems of having additional locos lying around to do the deed - though it would doubtless allow massive improvements to services. One interesting possibility raised with the HST fleet was a further rebuild of the current trailers, to include power doors & tanked toilets etc, with new-build power cars. Makes sense. I fear that any newbuild loco-hauled coaching stock engines would more than likely come in the form of a 'new' class 67, they pretty much fit the bill I guess, though the barn-like styling isn't particularly impressive :-/

The 67 has been offered before as a HST power car replacement with just one 'driving cab', about when Virgin looked set for 'Challenger' 2+5 HST sets.

In the latest Modern Railways Roger Ford says that the DFT is actualy considering Trakx locos and hauled stock as an alternative to IEP.Obviously this will give flexibility that is urgently required in the future,also Trakx are proven locos used all over europe so build some Mk3,s and we have the answer to many problems.If the GWR electrification does happen Pendolinos would be a good choice ,just put better seats in them!!!!!!

Excuse my ignorance, but what are Trakx locos ?

If they ever build/rebuild Pendolinos, do you think that they could line up the seats with the windows? They manage it on all passenger aircraft!
Extra coaches? Isn't that what the Class 153's were made for? They are certainly used here in the South West to bolster service trains.

I think they might mean these;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRAXX

I could be wrong. They look good though to be fair.

Seimmens build them for all over europe good locos very versatile.

built by Bombardier for europe

Thanks for the "Wiki" link, I wondered what TRAXX locos were too. It is a pity that they all look like shipping containers with end windows. (and we thought the "Skips" were bad).

there are two ways foward without a new build at the moment
there 80 mk 3 s in store on Irish railways need to re gague the bogies. I am sure they could find a way of chopping 7" off the width of the bogies, they even have sliding plug doors
also there are a load of ex buffet cars in store cut a few extra windows in them, new seats and bingo. I read you cannot cut holes in mk3 s cos of the way they are made. but i read that chiltern are thinking of putting windows in D V T s ,,I wish great eastern would do the same it is a waste to have an empty D V T taking up as much space as a coach on limited length crowded thains on the Norwich run

My Friend Les G Raises some very valid points !!
The Class 66 from a Dvr perspective are Noisy but the "New" Seats are a big improvement even if that does nothing for the internal noise problem. I could enlarge upon that issue but back to the original thing re the British locos.

As nice and characterful as they are compared to the General Motors Loco`s they are not in the same league !!
Kris :)

Build new Mk3's? - I suppose the Austin Allegro should go back into production as well! - Who would build them today? I very much doubt Siemens, Bombardier or Asltom would be interested in tooling up to build a 40 year old BREL design! If loco haulage is the way forward then, as with the TRAXX loco, an off the shelf European design will be needed. One solution may be taking the Bombardier Turbo/Electrostar or Siemens Desiro as a basis and stripping them of traction equipment, fitting them with doors at the vehicle ends, giving them an Inter-City interior and equiping them with 125mph bogies.

Besides which, wasn't there the Mk4? Aren't they superior? I don't see why we'd go back to Mk3's.

It's not like we're going back to building Mk1's!

No - Traxx Locomotives are built by Bombardier. Siemens equivelent is the Taurus locomotive

The thing about the MK4s is that they are smaller than the MK 3s.
Brush traction should built them or Hunslet. Why? They are British. Creating work and keeping money in our economy. We are relying far too much on foreign countries and to say that most of our railway infastructure is owned by the Germans.

In order to make the railway profitable we need to ensure that out of any profit it makes, the money stays here, and then preferably goes back into the railway, and then then reduces the subsidies that the industry needs.

Perhaps greatly updating the MK 3 into a MK5 would be a great long term project, with all UK designers involved, but in the short term, the MK 3 is certainly cheaper and feasable than unflexible and costly DMUs.

The Traxx locos would have to be redesigned for our loading gauge though. I also find it a shame that Mk 3 coaches are lying around in Ireland. Why can't they be used in Britain. Bogies could be used from withdrawn sleeper stock if there are any still around.

I travel on Arriva Cross Country trains quite often, I love the rare occasions when a HST with nice comfy Mark 3s turns up rather than the dreaded Voyagers!:)

IMO the Mk3s are the best of the british made coaching stock, they seem bigger and I found were generally more comfortable, although those arm rests were a pain!

The Mk4s were built with tilt technology in mind (just like the 91s, although I understand neither are now suitable due to modifications) and so, like the Pendelinos and Voyagers, they are narrower at the top to facilitate it. There is no point in building these heavier coaches unless you want to have them tilting, but there is relatively little suitable track for tilt to be used on, and make a difference in the timings.

There is also a question of testing a Mk4 design away from the ECML, I don't know where they are cleared for, but the Mk3 is cleared for all mainlines and quite a few other routes too.

Didn't BREL become Adtranz which became Bombardier? I'm sure they would be happy to make more Mk3s if the price was right.

I should say that the class 150 DMU was built with a MK3 body shell along with other successful DMUs.

Quote from the guard on the first class 150/1 I ever had the misfortune to travel on: "Whoever designed these (Expletive deleted) things should be forced to travel on them for a week, they'd make a dash for the drawing board at the end of it!"

Regards, 62440.

[QUOTE=LesG;51610]do youthink a 66 or67 will ever last as long as 47 or be as reliable 50 years and still going

We live in the real world chaps. The Jaguar E Type was a wonderful car but nobody is going to start building them again. When the worlds train manufacturers have their own designs available there is absolutely no incentive to start manufacturing a 40 year old design that has been out of production since 1986! I cant imagine other countries ghaving this debate when they need new trains. They just seek tenders from the worlds train makers and order take the most advantageous offer. Why do we have to reinvent the wheel or wallow in nostalgia?

I traveled on a150 in the midlands some time ago they are nearly as bad as a Pacer ,noisy ,poor ride,the windows seem to be high in the body.Maybe the Chinese can provide an alternative to a MK3they are advertising in the papers with prices about there products.I read that they are going to run some units this year with a TOC as a trial but wont say which one.Still think that MK3,s are the best saw a picture of them when first introduced,looked very light and airy compared to now with high backed seats.Good article in Modern Railways latest issue.