Diesel brake tenders.
 

It came up on another thread (now closed) about brake tenders used with diesels hauling unfitted freight trains.

As I had never heard of such things it took my interest. I see several are available for railway modelers but did any survive on the railways proper ?

Can anyone say when they were last used ?

I have this photo on my website....

http://western-champions-pics-online...p45549670.html

I guess it dates from the late 60's.

and this one dated 1966.....

http://western-champions-pics-online...p45549724.html

Thanks for the photos.

I did read that it was not uncommon for them to be in front of the loco.

I said before on the other thread we used to use them on ballast trains 2 or 3 behind the loco.

ccmmick.

Pre65.
Most of the tenders were made with old Gresley coach bogies with tanks filled with concrete.
I have heard of a group trying to recreate one of these and I would like to see this.
I do not know if any different bogies were used but this probaly made them the last big four stock (in part) in service on the network.

For them to be infront of the loco this was most likely for balance but could imporve safety in a crash.

There have been rumours of problems with the tenders.
The most common being the concrete inside will crack and move about which would split the tank and put them off balance.
Cold weather or a strong jolt could cause this.
if this was ever solved I don't know.
Hope that helps you.

Brake Tenders were still in use in the '70s. In London they were mostly found in Acton Yard. I remember taking one from Stratford MPD to Temple Mills after it had received fitters attention.

I think you will find its just rumours SFE the concrete was encased in the tender so it had nowhere to go, you have brakevans with concrete at both ends, lots of diesel locos that had there boilers removed had a concrete counterbalance in place.
So i dont know where that came from.

ccmmick.

I do it was in a pub so I see what you mean.

I have resurrected this though as I have found something you may find of interest.
It does not matter if you don't have a model railway but this is good for display.

If you buy a cheap Hornby railroad gresely coach and unclip the body from the frame- then you can get a kitchen roll tube and gently sqaush it into an elipse shape.

Cut lengthways down the tube to produce two halves.
Note: don't cut the squashed part.

Paint one half with a silver paint and glue onto the coach frames.

The ends can be made with card of some sort also painted grey.


A further note- the ends of the tube may have to be trimmed to fit properly.

Now you should have a good budget model of one of these tenders.
The gresley coaches in the railroad range are priced at £15.25

Just something to do on those snowy days we are having.

Or this perhaps ?

http://www.justliketherealthing.co.u...e%20tender.pdf

Looks good that.
I might have a go.

ccmmick I thought they were in front of the locos.
I have only ever seen pics of them there.
But I suppose if there was more than one then it would be compulsary to have them behind the loco for visability purposes.
We need some drivers here. Anyone who has driven a class 40 (the main reason they were invented) will have the most experience.

Brake Tenders
 

Some replies make me smile
BRILLIANT.

I have never heard of tenders being worked in front of the loco only behind upto three in total.
It wasnt for the loco more for the ballast trains years ago heavy trains and not enough brake force.
As for class 40s i never worked on them.

ccmmick.

I saw it in a past issue of I think British railways illustrated of a 1969 view of a hymek with one in front and the same with a brush type 4
The issue was focused on the topic in hand.

I have to say, if you look at the 'Just Like The Real Thing' link, the first photo on there DOES actually appear to be a class 37 with a brake tender IN FRONT; the end with the b/t carries a headcode, and wagons are at the other end. Of course, it COULD be shunting, but.....?

We used to see these through Loughborough usually on unfitted coal trains hauled by whatever Toton had handy, Peaks (Class 44 or 45), 47's, or double headed 25's or 20's. They were usually marshalled behind the locos going south, but in front coming back North with the empties. I remember seeing them in green with yellow ends, very dirty of course, never saw a clean one. I also have a vague memory of seeing one with a 4 character headcode panel.
That Just like the real thing model looks the part, only trouble is it's O gauge and I'm working in OO.

Regards, 62440.

Yes i can see that now Dave i myself have never worked one in front of the loco.

ccmmick.

I see the GCR are re-creating one, project X.

Project ‘X’ – the Diesel Brake Tender Project

"Members of Railway Vehicle Preservations TPO crew are in the process of constructing an item of rolling stock that failed to enter preservation, despite the last vehicles having been withdrawn from traffic in the early 1980s, namely a Diesel Brake Tender. RVP member Phil Stanbridge initially came up with the idea while some vehicles at the Great Central Railway were about to be scrapped after having been purchased for spare parts. One of the vehicles was set aside for the project, while a feasibility study and then design work was undertaken. The project became known as “Project X” while this work was being undertaken, as the team wanted to keep it quiet until all hurdles had been overcome. Once proven that it was feasible work started on the vehicle, which will be numbered B964122, the next number following on from the originals. As all the original vehicles came from LMS or LNER descendents and this conversion is from a BR Mark 1 a new diagram number is being created to accommodate the design, this being 1/559, which would have been the next number in the B.R. wagon diagram series."

The first time I saw the brake tenders was on the East Coast line north of York. They were always in front of the D67xx's (later Class 37) on unfitted freight. By 1963 it was rare to see a D67xx without a brake tender and they were always in front of the engine.

The only time I ever saw a brake tender was at Barry Scrapyard in the mid 70s

As for concrete cracking.
Yes it does, one of our brakevans on the NYMR had its flooring all warped, we removed it and found that the concrete ballast is actually filled with old brake blocks and other scrap, the rust on this scrap had forced the concrete to crack then with water ingress and more rust the floor was distorted.

Was there a date when unfitted freight finished ?

There is a photograph in Jack Cupits excellent book Mansfields Railways of D1 Scafell Pike with assistance from a 4F with a brake tender behind D1 passing Kirkby Colliery Sidings, I won't put it on here because someone must have the copyright, a book well worth buying if you can get a copy.
A couple of days ago I went to the GCR and at Rothley they've started building a brake tender there, so I'm looking forward to seeing it when its completed.

http://www.railwayforum.net/showpost...8&postcount=17 :D

Thanks for the info Philip.

I remember seeing brake tenders in front of diesel locomotives but it always seemed to be a Class 37 usually on the main line south of York (Dringhouses)

I found a picture of one on a passenger train.

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/u...el-Type2-4.jpg

And, one with two different designs of brake tender.

http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/pics/jle_Bktdrs.jpg

And here is the new build at the GCR.

http://blog.thinkant.co.uk/wp-conten.../08/DBT-11.jpg

There are OO gauge kits but read this Hornby Mag they are making a BR one

and about time

I wouldn't think visibility would have been a problem SFE, the diesel brake tenders I used to see around the East Midlands were quite low well below the windscreen of a class 40 but perhaps one was enough for most jobs. I recall seeing one in the mid 60s between a Peak and a rake of unfitted 16 ton mineral wagons on a trip from Kirkby Yard to Toton Yard and a 4F in front of the Peak which was probably for braking too as the trip would have been mostly down hill especially the line from the old Kirkby station to Pye Bridge Junction which is quite steep. I think I mentioned before a group are building a diesel brake tender at the GCR it could be seen when I was there earlier this year.

They were also used with Class 73's in the 1970's between Acton and Norwood/Wimbledon

Update on the new build on the GCR.

http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/projectx/
http://www.rvp-ltd.org.uk/projectx/?idx=latest

We had a brake tender at Healey Mills on the shed and on Donny Shed was another but this was made from a Peak Bogie.

Re these break tenders being filled with concrete. Many were also filled with scrap metal to reach the required weight. They ceased to be used in the late 70s or early 80s
Interesting thread.
All the best
Phil