HST preservation unlikely?
 

Hi

I was asking around about the going rate for a scrapline class 37 or 56. To my astonishment a scrapline condition class 56 would set you back £30,000!

Amazing to think just 6 years ago a recently withdrawn class 37 or 47 would only set you back £3,000 - £4,000.

Thanks to the industrial revolution occuring in India and China, I worked out a full HST set (2 power cars, 8 coaches plus transportation costs) would cost £205,000 in accordance with todays scrap price index.

With this in mind, is it likely a full HST set will be preserved outside the national collection?

Well Rassy in the future we know we are going to get all sorts of rail tours.
50 years ago steam specials were all the rage and still are but steam has joined the ranks.
A tour operator such as west coast railways may buy one in the future for mainline tours but that won't be for a long time. The reason being that they are still everywhere. With the electrification of the GW main line (of which I am opposed to entierly and would go for hydrogen powered trains) the vast majority will be withdrawn. Virgin started it and this will most likely finnish the job.

We cannot be certain but my advice to you is to enjoy them while you still can. I do know of several people wanting to start preserving mark 3 stock and this I think would be a good idea but something tells me they will outlive the units that haul them as they are transferrable to the 225 units.

Pete Waterman is very rich and he has a passion for steam and so does David Shepard but with a bit of persuasion they might consider a one off diesel venture to save one of the most important modern traction sets.
Hope this helps put your mind at rest.

Still many years of service for HST's phew!

Totally agree with your GWR electrification comment. Why are people so stupid? Electric trains pump just as much carbon into the atmosphere as diesel ones. It's just that with diesel the carbon gets spread out along the journey, as opposed to it going up from one location - the powerstation. Nowadays, politicians can say and do anything just by crying 'CLIMATE CHANGE'!

Off topic slightly, but I read in an article by the founder of Greenpeace Irving Stowe, that Evironmentalism is the new communism. He said after the fall of USSR, all the communists flooded into the green movement especially Greenpeace, because they knew they could use the 'global warming' issue as a front for their communist ideals.

Hopefully if the tories get in next may, the GWR electrification might never happen!

That's amazing.....Irving Stowe died in 1974? :rolleyes:

Well as much as I want to believe all of that Rassy I can't.
We need to start using energy saving bulbs and to recycle now.
Even if global warming is not true (which it most likely is but not as drastic) then natural resouces are.
If we use fossil fuels less then we can keep using it for the essential aspects of life or find a way to make it last and neutralise the emmissions.
The effects of pollution are obvious in the city.

When the ice caps are concerned they cannot be melting fast as the temperature is still far below zero all year round.
Enough to keep it at the present thickness anyway.

Back to trains- I would like to see some designs for a hydrogen powered train as they could well be the future.
Hydrogen is of course the most abundant thing in the universe and the only emmission would be water.
I think that this excess water could be used to power a steam booster.

To the original topic- all of the HST's have been re engined so none of the original examples exist.

PS: you may have noticed I am not using commas where they are needed recently and this is because the comma button is on the blink.

Just remember that scrap prices dip and rise every minute, last october the scrap price went from £120 to £3 a ton of mild steel overnight. Most yards buying things buy at an average for the month price, hope this clears a few things up

I have no doubt that an HST set will be preserved and hopefully on the mainline. There is a group already working towards this. gathering spares etc.

As far as electrification is concerned it is the only way forward for the foreseeable future. I personally hope that the Midland Mainline Electrification goes ahead. I also think that the GWR electrification will go ahead. I am sure Brunel would approve! In fact I am sure he would have done it if the technology had been available.

Electrification should get more planes out of the sky and that would reduce pollution!

As a visitor to high mountains I can assure that glaciers are in full retreat! When I flew over Greenland on the way to California last April, glacial retreat was also evident even though it was still covered in snow!

Best wishes,

for Christmas and 2010,

John H-T.

Hi, some info on a hst group can be found by following the link below
http://www.125group.org.uk

I for one hope they can save a least a pair of power cars ( I believe some Paxman Valenta's engines have been saved but the cost of reconverting would be huge even if it is Technically possible and some suggest that they cant reverse the re engine process). These are wonderful machines if you can see past the DMU link and have given sterling service and some record runs.
Regards

Well John, Brunels atmospheric railway was similar in principle and the only problem was that the material used for the vacuum pipe either rotted or rats bit holes on it.

The basic principle beinghaving the power source at one particular location and distributing the means of propulsion.
In fact, with better technology which we now have, we could probably have another crack at it.

Thanks for the link Bryan.

Best wishes for Christmas and 2010,

John H-T.

There is no doubt that the Atmospheric Railway was an interesting technology but given present economics I think electrification is a better option!

Best wishes for Christmas and 2010.

John H-T.

And you John!

[QUOTE=John H-T;36415]There is no doubt that the Atmospheric Railway was an interesting technology but given present economics I think electrification is a better option!

I am with you on that one it is very interesting but its dead no way will it happen.

ccmmick.

I have to ask, is there actually any HST's with the original engines left in?

The ones with the buffers do, don't they? They with Grand Central?

Or am I imagining this?

Are you thinking of the electric 225 units?
They have always had buffers but the 125s have never had buffers.
Yes you are right about them.

It is interesting to think about what is to become of the 225s in the future.
At the moment they have a long life ahead of them on the east coast and I do hop they live through another 20 years before a new design is even considered.

Wrong SFE! A number of HSTs WERE fitted with buffers around 1990-ish.

Regarding my last posting concerning HSTs with buffers, here's a photo of such a thing, 43068 at York in 1991:
http://daverowland.fotopic.net/p56019810.html

Keep going lads, this is a very intersting thread, I am reading with interest.

48111

"Dya" want to borrow one mate, I have got a spare keyboard !!:D:D
48111

HST power car
 

252 001 - one of the prototype power cars is in the NRM (at York? I think in the Great Hall), and it has buffers {which I remember from seeing it under test at Chippenham in 1972/3}

The reason why 8 power cars were fitted with buffers in 1987, was so they could be used as DVT's for the class 91's.

When the class 91's were first built the DVT's and MK4 coaches were not ready in time to be tested, so they fitted 8 HST's with buffers and used them instead.

i see you like scrap locos rassy

what about the NRM's 41 001 ;)

That's not a standard HST set, it's a prototype, hardly what most people would associate with class 43 - it wasn't a passenger train was it, just part of a test unit?

Not to mention the prototype isn't the full set anyway?

well its got its original Paxman Valenta, but I get the point :)

I am sure the prototype was used in service for passenger evaluation purposes?

Elecric trains have a far better performance than a diesel in the 1960,s the deltics only produced about 2600hp at the rail(depending on speed) wheras the AL6(86) 25kV loco was producing about 4000hp, the gap in performance still exists. Electric Traction does have some disadvantages and few people allow for electrical transmission losses in their calculations, however the powers source can be what Coal, Neuclear, Wind, Tidal Whatever you want.

One problem;
whenever it snows electric trains stop working.

So most of the network in Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Sweden, Norway, Estonia, China, North Korea, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Germany, Slovakia, Czech, Hungary etc etc just shuts down coz electric trains dont work in snow? ;)

They know what they're doing in those countries?