Quintishell
 

Hi I am new to the site and am interested in all aspects of railways.

I have bee researching the Caledonian Railway and have come across some evidence that queries the findings of the cause of the accident.

Anyone have any information?

Jack

Might help if you told us about this "accident" or gave a link to a web site giving details.

I googled "Quintishell" but got nothing ! Wheres my crystal ball ? :D:D

It's Quintinshill - that's why your Google didn't work!
Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintinshill_rail_disaster

Quintinshell
 

Hi sorry about the spelling.

It was Britain's worst railway disaster over 200 killed.

Two signalmen were blamed and served prison sentences. However,in local sources there were suggestions that there may be more to this and driver error may have also been a factor.

Both signalmen were re-employed by the Caledonian railway after they left prison which gave rise to speculation that they may not have been entirely reponsible.

Jack

I remember reading about the accident at Quintinshill
A very bad rail disaster.

ccmmick.

The animated diagram on Wikipedia make the accident easier to understand.

Seems both signalman were "sloppy" in the way they undertook their duties. What does this new "evidence" suggest ?

I have come across two possibilities one in a book that I would like to find and the other based on local unpublished reports that may have been supressed, as the first train to crash was a troop train in the first world war there may have been censorship.

The local evidence suggests that the driver of the troop train may have missed signals he certainly approached the block post at high speed.

Thanks for putting that on Dave very interesting.A lot of accidents were caused by overworked signalmen .If you had a box way out somewhere there were times when the relief didnt show till real late and other times when they never turned up at all so some men were on duty for long hours without a rest .

Hello Jack and welcome to the Railway Forum.

I don't see how the driver of the troop train can be held responsible. It had clear signals and was travelling fast because it was on a falling gradient. The signalman who had just come on duty admitted accepting the troop train and clearing the signals. One very important point that was never established was which of the two signalmen gave the "train out of section" signal to the previous box after looping the up goods train. Had this been established it would probably have redistributed the blame but still only between the two signalmen.

How could this happen in broad daylight - or was it thick fog?? Too many people were totally absent minded and those type of people dont last long in a combat situation so its just as well they were not fighting any wars. God what a horrible way to die for those poor soldiers - its enough to give one nightmares. I had never heard of this one before and I have read up on quite a few messes over the years. Couldnt happen nowadays of course!

Thats how it was stated in the inquiry,but as I say, there does appear to be speculation. I would like to trace a book published on this speculation and purely from an interest point of view look at the local rumours that seem to focus around some compensation claims , the very short sentences (for the time) 18 months and the immediate re-instatement of the two men which does perhaps suggest that there was more to this.

Just to reply to the latest post yes it was grizly with several disturbing reports. Some good did come from it with track circuiting insallations being sped up after the war.

I heard it was the solders who staged the accident.
Remember that the western fornt was hell on earth and some soldiers may have crashed the trains so they could be presumed dead and start a new life.
It worked for Robert Maxwell and since they found his skull was female Hitler too.

I just cannot believe that there is one ounce (or gram :D) of truth in that suggestion. In fact I was shocked to see it in print.

Sorry about that.

My great great great great grandafter was on that train.
A Joseph Bazley (not from the Finney side obviously) and we cannot find his grave anywhere.
We have his records to show his movements but there is no clear record of his death.

As a student, I have free access to the Times Archive, and I've found quite a few contemporary sources there for the Quintinshill disaster. Unfortunately I can't work out how to cut 'n' paste from the archive....I suspect it would upset Murdoch if I did! But if anyone has any questions I'd be happy to have a look through the articles and see what I can come up with.

From the Enquiry...The Times May 26 1915.

Colonel Druitt. "Did you make use of the lever collars?"

Signalman Meakin. "No, it is very seldom we use them." :eek:

How on EARTH can your great great great great grandfather have been on a train in 1915? I'm 60, and MY g-g-g-g grandfather was born in 1755, it's highly unlikely he ever got to SEE a train, let alone live to the ripe old age of 160 and actually TRAVEL on one! Even my brother's kids' (both under 10) g-g-g-g grandfather was born around 1772. I fear an element of error may have slipped into your calculations SFE. Merry Christmas anyway. :)

I think it would have been extremely difficult for any passenger to stage a rail accident of that magnitude. However, I have been delving further and it is the short prison terms and the re-instatement by the Caledonian Railway that has given rise to local suspicion of perhaps some company liability - such as in the Manor House accident in 1892. These men were working 12 hour shifts on the west coast mainline in wartime. any personal or work related problems could have caused this - but as there was little public interest in wartime perhaps this was conveniently covered up.

The Board of Trade report on the Quintinshill Disaster is available to read here:
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/doc...T_Quin1915.pdf
It starts on page 2 of the document.

It all depends on ages of people when they have children.
Most of my decendents have had childeren in their 20s and I am half your age as well.
I may have also got my figures wrong as well.