What would you do?
 

You are walking with a friend along a footpath that crosses a busy electrified mainline on the level. As you approach the crossing you notice that someone has deliberately placed about half a dozen hardened steel pandrol clips on the rails of both the up and down lines. Almost immediately the crossing warning light changes to red indicating the approach of a train. The view to your left is limited to about ¾ mile by a long sweeping curve and the view to your right is only slightly better being somewhere in the region of one mile. The maximum line speed is 100 m.p.h. and the route is used by virtually all types of freight and passenger trains. Because of the restricted visibility the direction from which the train is approaching is not immediately obvious although very shortly the sound of a diesel loco, working hard, is heard to your left. The train, which you assume to be a freight, is not yet visible and although it doesn’t sound like it’s travelling particularly fast there is always the chance that a second, higher speed train, will also approach from the right……………WHAT WOULD YOU DO ?


I know we have a number of professional railwaymen on the forum and I will be particularly interested in what they have to say.

John

I would ring the line control room to see if it would be possible to stop the train. Every automatic level crossing I've seen (admittedly not many) has had a little box with a phone in it, so that HGV can get permission to cross the line. Mind you, I'm no expert on such matters, my hometown having no level crossings or a main line.

Adam

It wasn't a proper vehicular level crossing Adam. It was just a footpath/bridleway with user operated swing gates. No telephones.
John.

Ah. In that case I'd like to think I'd do my best to remove the clips, but in the event I probably wouldn't be brave enough. I'd try to get the drivers attention and get him to stop at least.

Adam

I can't believe that the professional railwaymen (past and present) on this forum have nothing to say about this scenario.:confused:
Come on guys......are you afraid of being contradicted by colleagues?.......Can "trespassing" on the railway, for whatever reason, ever be condoned?......what was the likelihood of the Pandrol clips causing a derailment?
Several years ago when I asked this same question on an American Forum I was inundated with replies.
John.

From a non-professional railwayman's view, anything on the top of the rail is likely to ping off at very high speed in any direction when hit by a wheel.

So no Jenny Agutter heroics from me.
I would run.

(Though if there were no train coming, I would kick the clips off, trying to remember my long expired PTS and IWA training about sighting distances)

Nice bit of editing, Shed Cat.:D You are thinking along the same lines as myself. My concern and something I would like expert advice on, is if the bogie of a DMU or a DVT travelling at 100 mph could "knock off" a dozen of these clips without becoming unstable.
John.

Just seen this as a railway man,in my opion it would depened on how many clips were on the rails,if it was safe to do something like remove them i would remove them,and then report the problem to a manger in the control room.
If all else failed i would try to stop the train by some means but i this case you can only hope the driver can see you and stop.
But in on way would i place myself in any danger over it,All the best,Ian.

Yes, I had to look up the spelling of our Jenny's name inspite of the impression her films made on me as a youth. Mustn't go too far down this route, as I belive mention of JA is a cardinal sin on the SEMG site :D

Ian, thanks for your input. I am assuming from your comments that you would personally consider the clips to be a potential derailment risk.
John.

It’s pretty obvious that I am not going to get any further input from experienced railwaymen so I will draw a line under this thread. If you haven’t already guessed I was the person in the scenario. My wife and I regularly used the crossing during our walks and being an enthusiast I had a good idea of what trains to expect at different times of the day.
From the laboured sound it was making the approaching diesel-hauled train appeared to be a regular Class 6 working. It’s slow speed would give me ample time to “kick” the clips off the rails but I was also aware that a Virgin Inter-City and a Class 325 Royal Mail Unit were also due in the other direction. Convinced that the clips posed a threat and that I needed to do something quickly I got my wife to watch for any other approaching trains and I ran onto the crossing and booted the clips off the rails. I don’t think that I had ever moved so fast in my life and I was back to the safety of the footpath before the driver of the approaching diesel even saw me.
When we got home I reported the incident to the British Transport Police. I didn’t expect them to officially approve of my actions but I was surprised that they were so disinterested. I am not sure if the officer knew what a Pandrol clip was but he didn’t seem to regard the incident as being very serious. Maybe he was right and I was wrong and the clips hadn’t constituted a hazard to trains? I still don’t know to this day.
P.S. One thing that I made clear to the BTP was that I was pretty certain that the clips were not the work of kids. We had a good view of the approaches to the crossing and there were no kids in the area. Between the last train passing and us finding the clips the only activity in the area was a Land-Rover, which drove away quickly as we approached.:confused:
John

Obviously you make the correct decision in the circumstances, and who knows what accident you saved. Kids is one thing, but it is shocking that adults might do that.

What was the result of your previous discussion board thread?

Pretty mixed really. Some thought I was a super hero and others thought I was mad:D Generally speaking the loco drivers didn't approve of my actions although none would say if they considered the clips to be a threat. My guess is that they are assuming their loco would push the clips off the tops of the rails but I doubt if you could find one with enough confidence to try it at 100 mph:D I don't think Pandrol clips are used as much in the U.S. as they are here but one chap with an engineering background, who knew of them, was adamant that they could derail even a monster U.S loco.
John.

As you lived:- you are a Superhero.

If you had been killed:- you would have been mad :)

I can't argue with that:D
John

Yes John,i would consider them to be not only a derailment risk but also a risk to the train crew and other staff in the area,as they could go anywhere if they get hit by a train going at speed.In fact i think one or two would be moved off by the train but any more could be a problem.
All the best,Ian

Thanks for that Ian. When I saw all these clips neatly lined up on the running rails I was convinced that I had to do something. Although I knew that the freight was coming I was more concerned that a really high speed train might appear in the opposite direction. With my wife acting as lookout I felt reasonably safe but it's still a strange feeling to deliberately go onto a railway line knowing that a train is coming and totally alien to what I would normally do.
I don't know what I would have done if I had been on my own.:confused:
John.

As railway men you do get use to it's just like crossing the road to me,but i know what you mean.
All the best,Ian