Level crossing on the Central Line....shock! (pun intended)
 

How did that work in practice then? No live rail for the width of the crossing perhaps? With the short two-car train coasting for a few seconds across the 5 or 6 metres?

What he's on about you ask.
Well this morning while randomly flicking through the 2006 second edition of "The Central Line" by messrs. Bruce & Croom, I came across a late 50s early 60s picture of a red 1935 tube stock two-car train (Central Line) which worked as a shuttle at North Weald, out on the eastern edge of the Central Line, and part of the accompanying text reads: "...A level crossing just north of the station remained in use until the line's closure in 1994"

The line in question being the Epping-Ongar section.

BUT does this scenario scare the life out of anyone else the way it did me?

A level crossing on a track-source electric system!!!:eek:

Unfortunately the relevant chapter doesn't explain how this curiosity actually worked.

Despite living in Essex and not too far away from there, this is the very first I have heard about it, so will keep an eye for further information.

Am I missing something here James?
Why should the third/fourth rail electrical system used on the Underground create any more problems at level crossings than the third rail system used by Network Rail?

First of all I didn't realise that any of the mainline railways had track-source power. I thought all mainline electircs in the UK were the same as in sweden i.e. overhead cables connecting to pantagraphs.

If that is not the case, is the network rail system the same as the Underground's?

The 3rd rail on underground lines is very live! As a police officer in Central London I saw the ghastly evidence of this on a regular basis. And which is why all central London police officers know how to turn the power off before getting on to the track or going into tunnels. So a live rail on a level crossing is a recipe for disaster surely. Unless of course something about the track at this level crossing was different.

Which is why I've never seen or heard of a level crossing on the Underground until I read of this one.

Hence my query.

Hi James. The trains on the Underground system have pick-up shoes at both ends and also on some of the intermediate cars, so a short gap in the live rail is not a problem; if one shoe loses contact there are always others to continue feeding the motors with current without any interruption. This is how they manage to continue running over points, crossings etc.

James,
Many Network Rail lines in London and the South-East and on Merseyside use a system where power is collected from a live third rail. The return current then passes via the normal running rails and some of it leaks into the ground. The London Underground system is very similar but uses a live third and fourth rail. Having the fourth rail means that the normal running rails do not have to be used for the return current so preventing most of the leakage to earth. Current leaking to earth on Underground lines built inside cast iron tunnels causes corrosion so must be avoided.
As Boilersuit says, all trains have more than one set of current collector shoes so gaps in the live rails at level crossings and pointwork do not pose a problem. As you pointed out in your initial post, level crossings are rare on the surface lines of the London Underground system but they are very common on the third rail lines operated by Network Rail.

If they hadn`t got a method of managing gaps in the live rail ( more than one pick up)trains wouldn`t be able to change direction at points.
Richard

Thanks chaps!

The Bessbrook and Newry tramway in Ireland (1880s or so until the 1940s) had 3rd rail (central) power, except where it crossed a road junction at an oblique angle. This was far longer than the tramcars, so they had bow- collector pickup just for this stretch.

The Southern Railway also had some 3rd rail locos which had pantograph pickups for use in goods sidings, where it would obviously be undesirable to use 3rd rail where shunters were manually coupling wagons using a pole.

This actually raises a very important issue. As a rule of thumb most third rail EMUs have pick up shoe at 'each corner', ie one on each side of the leading bogie and final bogie (with various exceptions - particularly on newer stock).

There are of course thousands and thousands of gaps in the conductor rail, and these are mostly configured so as NOT to be exactly 4 cars apart. This is particularly important for the normal stopping places such as stations, but there are locations where stopping at a signal can cause the train to become 'gapped'.

Local instructions or Company Instructions to drivers advise of this. One such place is on the Metropolitan Spur in London. Drivers of (4 Car) trains which are stopped on a red signal in the Down direction at the bottom of the slope are advised not to move off if it clears to only a single yellow. They should should only move if they receive two yellows or a green. This is because stopping at the next signal places them in the middle of Metropolitan jn which is full of gaps, and if they do become stuck they will block all trains out of Charing Cross !

Another issue raised earlier in this thread is third rail in sidings and depots. This is another place which is extremely gappy and when you motor through the points at a depot the Line Light clicks on and off all the time. It's extremely easy to gap in a depot, and is an unannounced cause of many cancelled peak trains !

The advice to a driver of a gapped train is to 'Gravitate'. Which is a posh way of saying release the brakes and hope to hell that there's enough of a gradient for the train to roll gently back onto the conductor. I can promise that If that does happen you feel like Christmas has come early. :)

Regards

FP

FP great explanation :cool:

Interesting chat as usual and you never know what is coming up next!!
I have spent years walking up and down the Epping Ongar Railway since it became a Heritage Railway and I know of no-where that a level crossing could have been located. I have seen all the track plans, inspected umpteen times but there are only underbridges or overbridges and foot crossings. There is nothing north of North Weald because the line runs strongly east-west. Thats got me stumped for sure!!

I have Ordnance Survey map 167 in front of me (date unknown but line shown as open) and there is no sign of a rail level crossing on that.

As said the line runs east-west at North Weald so ?


Philip.

The Southern/LUL Quail map book has one marked just to the east of North Weald Station at 5.6km from Ongar..

found this snippett.

"By May 2001, the pedestrian level crossing at North Weald station was open and adorned with signposts warning people to beware of trains: stiles had been constructed to take people into and out of the grounds of the former station. The level crossing provided the perfect opportunity to take photos of the line, platform and trackless second platform "

And

http://archive.echo-news.co.uk/2000/7/13/199671.html

Here is how that stretch looks today looking east towards Ongar and the now closed off foot-bridge.

http://eorailway.co.uk/news/uploaded...030-761203.jpg

Indeed it is possible to gap an 8 car at Victoria on the South Eastern side of the station, despit Network Rail,s assurances to the contrary! :(

Hello from Paris to everybody. The western area of Paris suburban trains (st. Lazare and Invalides stations) has been working with a 750v third rail system for nearly six decades (ca 1920-1980), and these lines had numerous level crossings. Both netwoks are now electrified with overhead wires (1 500 V DC for invalides and 25 kV AC for St. Lazare).

There is one level crossing in the Paris metro network, on a non-passenger line connecting the terminal siding of line n° 2 at "Nation" with the local wokshop. Of course the live rail is interrupted and trains pick current from one of the motors cars only during the crossing.

Hello,

Where exactly is located this "Metropolitan Spur", where stuck Met trains would block Charing X traffic ?

Hello SDX, Metropolitan Junction is on the line between London Bridge and Waterloo (East) stations, one of three junctions which form a triangle outside Charing Cross station.

Regards, 62440.

Fthr update - the LEVEL CROSSING is back!!

Meanwhile as part of the restoration, North Weald’s Up platform has recently been completed! This structure encompasses the original 4 coach platform, as well as extensions to the east and west, to enable us to run longer trains. All the extension pieces have been carefully moulded to match the original, and finished off with period lamp posts in LNER green. This week the final surface has been laid, topping off this project. In addition at the east end, the level crossing gates from Chitt’s Hill (the last manual operated gates on the Norwich line) have been installed. These are placed on the site of North Weald’s original level crossing which was closed in 1968, and are part of the works to improve footpath user safety and comfort and enable disabled access to the Up platform.

Up Platform and Level Crossing nearing completion at North Weald

See website for latest pix http://eorailway.co.uk/news/

3rd rail on Southern Region.
 

While the Underground uses such a 4 rail system for DC power return, I wonder how this is achieved on the Southern Region and tram systems.

Trams and these trains do not have a shoe on the running rails so I cannot understand how the earth return is achieved in these cases.

Heavy currents cannot be passed through the running wheel axle roller bearings with their grease etc.

I would imagine that the power is fed via contact with the running wheels themselves straight to the power circuits for the traction motors. They would have to keep the bogie insulated from all that juice.

On 'third rail' traction supply, return current passes through one or both of the running lines (which also have the 'track circuit block' signalling current running through one or both of the running lines). And it's the same for the OHLE catenary (except that at some stage it is then taken away through 'red bonds', boosted by transformers, and fed along overhead return cables).

In some areas on the mainline where there are traction problems you will see an additional rail in the 'four foot'. Unlike the Underground this doesn't make contact with the train, but is used as additional conductor. One place I can think of where this happens is at Farringdon where there are AC return currents, DC return currents, track circuits, and just to add to the craziness the ground is usually waterlogged.

Hope this helps. I've kept it as brief as I can. It can get very complicated, this "Electrickery" stuff. :D

Flying Pig (the EMU jockey).

It is many years ago when I worked on the Southern Region. As far as I can recall all emu units were bus lined thoughout the unit, with a pick up shoe at the either side at the ends of each unit. When working with more than one unit they oftern gerked badly when they were gapped as one unit was sometimes gapped whilst the othere still had power. I think that some 2 car inits such as the HAL's were Power Bus Lined between units. Also was the 5 BEL Units and 6 CORs on the Brighton line Maybe someone with a better memory can advise me.

Yes indeed. With the exception of class 313s, all modern mainline EMUs have a traction current bus. Class 313s are subject to Northern City Line regs which forbid a unit traction bus (whilst on DC).

But they don't pass traction current between units nowadays. Unit jumpers don't carry traction current !!

Also the 37* series emus have a pickup shoe at each corner of each driving motor (ie, 4 per vehicle), which helps reduce gapping/arcing.

And all 3rd rail units jerk and arc like crazy in the snow - same as they ever did. :rolleyes:


Best wishes,
FP

............ and even rarer in the tunnel sections. :D

I used to travel to New Milton from Waterloo as part of my commute and after leaving the built up area there is very nearly a level crossing at every station including near me at Brockenhurst and Christchurch.

Christchurch level crossing crosses a very busy, and pedestrian only, high street, I believe.

No trouble with conductor rails; the level crossing usually has a large expanse of cattle grid like woodwork between the edge of the road and the conductor rail.

Fthr developments at the site of the newest level crossing on the old Central Line is this old GER footbridge being lifted into place.

http://eorailway.co.uk/departments/diary/ - see photo on my gallery.

klordger1900 - Many thanks for alerting members to the updates on our website, and all the good work which is being undertaken by our teams down at the railway. Particularly while the railway is closed to the public, I like to keep the website up to date with all the latest news and developments. You can also follow us on Twitter or Facebook.

The GER footbridge was rescued from further down the Central line at Woodford, and we are very grateful to ORPS for donating it for re-use at North Weald, and it looks very fitting within this period setting. It has been completely sand-blasted, painted and lifted in, but the stairs are in a bad way, and we hope to have the funds to look at these after we are once again running passenger trains.

The farm crossing at North Weald was indeed closed in 1968 (with LT obtaining the farmer an alternative route), but we have put in Chitt's Hill gates (donated by Network Rail) as a decorative feature. The juice rail ramps were still in place beside the trespass guards up to quite recently and in the future we may look at putting in a small length of juice rail as a decorative piece and for filming works somewhere along the picturesque branch.

(I hasten to add that there are NO plans to re-electrify the line on ORR / legal, cost, safety and security grounds.)

Thanks for your support, Simon, GM, EOR

Well done Simon - keep up the good work!

I seem to recall on the video the central line a drivers view that the crossing is mentioned as a foot crossing and that the train coasts across it I havnt watched it for a few years as I havnt got a video player at the momment (must see if I can get all my videos converted if the cost isnt to high)