Single fares v Return fares.
 

For day trips why are National Rail walk-on single fares so expensive when compared to the equivalent return fares?
My wife and I are keen walkers and there are many places within a 10-12 mile radius of our local station that would make excellent starting points for a walk back home.
To give some examples of what I mean the cheapest available single fare to Chester is £5.30 but the equivalent return is only £5.60. The cheapest available single fare to Lostock Gralam is £9.20 whilst the return is only £11.20. Although farther afield another possibility is Altrincham but once again the cheapest single ticket costs £9.50 against a return fare of only £10.20.
I suppose National Rail would argue that the single fare is the correct price and that you are getting a fantastic discount for buying a return but I find it very hard to think that way myself.:(

The anomaly is different when booking in advance.

When I book online, it always suggests that 2 singles may be cheaper than a return. And yes, it always turns out to be the case.

It defies logic. But then that's the crazy world of the UK today.

Yes Yeuclid when travelling longer distances I've benefited from this myself but unfortunately advance booking doesn't result in any discounts for the local destinations that I mentioned.

The fare structure on the railway has always puzzled me, even though I was an RPI for a spell.

Some years ago and while I was working on the railway, my sister travelled by train from Chester to Euston without a ticket, while on her way to Essex for a family funeral and so staying for a few days. Because the train she needed was in the platform at Chester 15 minutes after getting to the station and Still in the queue trying to get a ticket, so she wanted to pay on the train. Not one member of staff walked through that train checking tickets and so upon arrival at Euston, plus being honest, she enquired where she had to pay? Because of her honesty, she was told to continue her journey without paying.

On the return leg, she ensured she Did have a ticket for the complete journey and enquiring about the difference between the single back to Chester from her then departure point, compared to the return fare she Would have paid had she got a ticket from the start was a whopping 10p.

I wonder if we had these crazy ticket prices prior to nationalisation?
I know in the late 50's that the Cheap Day Return from my local station to Liverpool was considerably cheaper than the available ordinary single. When asked for a "single to Lime Street" the booking clerk would always sell you a day return and tell you to throw the other half away.:)

There's nothing new in this. I can remember many, many years ago having quite an argument with a booking clerk at Birmingham Snow Hill trying to sell me a ticket to Malvern Link.

I asked for a single as I was going home and he said "You want a day return." I said "No, I want a single." This was repeated several times until he said "Look, I'm trying to be save you money - a day return is 6/- (30p), a single is 6/9d (around 33p). Do you still want a single?" I muttered "Thank you very much - I'll have a day return please!"

Difficult to fathom out 50 years ago - not much easier today.

On the plus side, today you can use a search engine to find out the relevant fares.

On the minus side, I bet these days most booking clerks would just sell you the single ticket !

Having said that, it was a London Midland conductor who brought my attention to the fact that the Crewe to Telford return fare (valid via Wolverhampton) is considerably cheaper than the Crewe to Wolverhampton return !

Good for them. Contrast that with a Central Trains Ticket Inspector (or Revenue Protection Officer or whatever they called themselves) a couple of years ago who questioned the validity of my West Midland Day Ranger ticket between Longbridge and Barnt Green. She clearly didn't know the difference between that and a Centro Daytripper ticket but in the end gave me the benefit of the doubt. I even showed her the relevant leaflet but she was still doubtful.

I complained to Central Trains who came back with the astonishing reply that with the range of tickets available, it wasn't surprising that she confused the two. If the management didn't even expect their own staff to understand, what hope the passenger (sorry, customer)?

Day Singles (previously Standard Day Singles) are available on fares set by any TOC but Off-Peak Day Singles are available for fares set by selected TOCs e.g. with Transpennine Express, but not with Northern Rail.

This makes some single journeys very expensive at peak times. I've seen one that was £10.80 for a single but £11.00 for an off-peak return.

For a journey to stations like Manchester Airport or Liverpool South Parkway then the train can be seen as an unattractive option if an Off-Peak Return (previously Saver) is not available, as most passengers using those stations won't be returning the same day.

I've heard someone ask for two singles for Knutsford to Manchester. They were told a Duo to Manchester is cheaper (150% of the cost of an off-peak return.)

I've also heard people at Altrincham and Stockport in the evenings ask for singles and get told an Evening Return is cheaper (50% the cost of an off-peak return.)

On the plus side when people buy returns and don't use the return section it helps make up for unaccounted passengers in statistics, in particular one's that board at unstaffed stations and the conductor on the train doesn't have time to sell them a ticket.

Good point. Sounds like the sort of daft thing we do in this country. Build a station, provide a regular train service and then set the fares so that people won't use them.

[B][I can see why so many people are anoyed and frustrated ,and put off by traveling by train because of the prices that are more mixed than pic and mix and so bloody confusing When me and my son went to washington last year we found this with our railfare ,first i went to our local staion where we live where i was told no more savers avaiable no day returns at all its all stoped only tickets are open returns so i priced the tickets from malton to heathrow airport open returns was quoted £474 pounds for 2 adults hmm i thought thanked him and came home luckily for us we are online and still in our modern age many folks still are not so i looked online found a ticket seller after checking around the net gave them a ring they quoted me £192 pounds the lot our tickets to kings cross and the tickets to heathrow as well could not belive the price from the one i was quoted at the station also my tickets were actually singles there and back as well as info about track maintenace on our return so we would have bus journeys from stevanege to peterborough to carry on our jourey home by rail which i did not mind especialy as they told me about it the bus trip was around 1 and a half hours but we were told and thats the thing realy with me if i had paid on the day the £474 pound price then got back from the states to be presented with a bus trip i would have been livid ,and also a rail ticket company online had more up to date info than my own local station and better value if the rail companys boxed clever now they could realy encouage more people on the trains because the buses are saturated now with the free bus pass people and pensioners which they are entitled to and its about time they got something back but the bus companys cram em on like sardines on minamel buses and some companys in york are taking out some bus services and routes because they take no money or are not subsidised enough so the railways could realy shine if they make the ticket system in laymens terms ?/B]

Interesting story Yorkydeltic.
When you are able to book in advance your local station often tends to be the worst place to do it.

Train fares are the biggest jungle going. We have the most expensive fares and the cheapest in this country. Getting to them is the clever bit.
Richard

Since both you and your wife are interested in walking, a number of possibilities suggest themselves – some more sensible than others !

1. one of you goes outwards by train and returns walking, the other walks outward and returns by train. The one who goes by train outwards buys a return ticket, and hands it over to the other when they meet somewhere along the walk.

2. if it is possible to get a period return ticket, then do two walks, one in each direction on different days

3. buy a return ticket, and when you reach your destination, sell the return half to someone who wants to make the journey in the opposite direction. [ obviously you will be more likely to find someone at Altrincham than Lostock Gralam ! ]
:D :D :D

The conductor needs to be motivated to collect the fares as well, of course !

Virgin never seemed to be interested in whether you had a ticket or not, unless you travelled to or from London. I used to travel by Virgin between Crewe and Stafford almost every day. Usually returning from Stafford on the 1619 Euston – Liverpool. I don’t think I had my ticket checked once in over a year ! Outward from Crewe (usually on 0854) I got checked about once or twice a week.

An interesting way of saving money but I don't think the missus would fancy the idea of walking alone.:D

As you say period returns aren't available for the routes mentioned so you are back to buying singles.

Would YOU buy a one-way ticket to Runcorn?:D :D

[QUOTE=Midland Compound;23279]
1. one of you goes outwards by train and returns walking, the other walks outward and returns by train. The one who goes by train outwards buys a return ticket, and hands it over to the other when they meet somewhere along the walk.

I suggested something somilar with my brother, but he thought it is actually not legal to buy a ticket with the intent of giving it to someone else. Is it?
Richard

Your brother is correct, Richard.
In the National Rail "Conditions of Carriage" http://nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf it says:

"A ticket may only be used by the person for whom it has been bought. It may not be resold or passed on to anyone else unless this is specifically allowed by the terms and conditions which apply to that ticket and which are set out in the notices and publications of the relevant Train Company."

However, I don't know how they could prove that someone had contravened this rule.:)

Another interesting rule that might be applicable should you try passing part of a return ticket to another person is this one:

"A return ticket (including a two-part return ticket) is only valid for the outward journey shown on that ticket if the ticket is completely unused. You may not use the outward part of a return ticket after you have used the return part."

Thanks for that bit of info!
richard

Spoilsports !!:mad: :rolleyes:

I suppose it is to stop Ticket Touts buying up all the Advance Fare tickets ...