Oldest diesel
 

Hi all,

While looking at a photo this morning of a class 03 with the funnnel. I got to wondering if any of these old diesels are still in working order or evne still intact?

Also would I be completely batty, as the novice I am, to assume that there were class 02 and class 01 diesels as well at some point back in the 40s or
50s?

And also, anyone know the "golden" date of when the first diesel pulled a regular service passneger train?

Thanks
James

Hi James,

yes indeed there are many of these shunters stiil about, I believe some may still be at work in Industry,with most most heritage lines having an example of one sort or another. The class numbers exist 01,02,03 etc upto 17. I know the heritage shunter trust have a website full of info and there are many books on the subject. The HST are based on the Peak Rail Line at present. There was/is a website preservedshunters.co.uk with many photo's and details too.

Hope this is helpful

regards

Very helpful Byan. Thank you very much.

I'm going to go over to that shunters site straight away.

James

James,

Wikipedia also has good articles on them all:

Class 01
Class 02
Class 03
Class 04
Class 05
Class 06
Class 07
Class 08
Class 09
Class 10
Class 11
Class 12
Class 13
Class 14

Some of them bring back great memories, such as wandering around knackered old sheds in Scotland in the early 80s looking for forlorn Class 06s, and peering through the crack of the shed at the disused class 01s in Holyhead.

Wikipedia also has stuff on the history of diesel locos:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive#History

Thanks, very helpful!

We have two working 03's at The Ecclesbourne Valley Railway at Wirksworth in Derbyshire. I will post a couple of photos later.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

I don't know the date, but I assume the loco in question would have been LMS 10000, so late 1947 or early 1948 ?

PS assume we are talking about the UK here ...

Two photos of the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway 03s as promissed:

1. 03084 (built Doncaster 1959) in Wirksworth Yard in 2006 in company with the then resident 37075 (now at Churnet Valley Railway)

2. D2158 (built Swindon 1960) pulling one of the special trains on 8th March 2008 to celebrate the reopening of the line to Idridgehay.

First Question James do you mean diesel powered or diesel hauled?

If the former it would probably be the GWR rail cars in the 1930's although the Southern may have had diesel DMUs before that.

If the later it would have been 10000 in December 1947 just in time to be before Nationalisation. I am not sure that it entered revenue earning service until 1948. Will do some more research!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Thanks for that info John. And I meant hauled i.e. loco not railcar.

Oh lovely, a couiple of Class 3s.
Now perhaps you can tell me, class 3s and 4s (and maybe even later classes too) had funnels but class 1s and 2s didn't. Why is that do you know? Why did funnels suddenly come into use on the class 3s?

James,

I have now found the photo I was looking for of 10000 on the Press Run, which was probably its first public passenger train, on 15th January 1948. Master Builders of Steam by H.A.V. Bullied.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

The "chimney" on the 03s and the 04s houses the exhaust pipe. They were very much a diesel on a steam type chassis. We have to oil round the coupling rods at the beginning of the day, just like a steam engine, it is a "total loss" system. If we take one down to Duffield from Wirksworth, which is eight and a half miles we top up the oil before we start back. It is up hill all the way back to Wirksworth.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Thanks John, that explains it. Fascinating stuff. "Chimney" of course not "funnel". But Chimney still sounds strange when referring to a vehicle and not a building.

As far as I know, the class number does NOT relate to the order of introduction, so Class 01 was not the first class of shunter built. [many types of shunter were withdrawn before the class system was introduced in the mid 1960s]

Ah ha..the plot thickens. But I would still assume that a class 01 is older than a class 03...or is that an incorrect assumption?

The TOPs numbering system eg Class 03, Class 20, Class 50 etc, which you refer to, was introduced in about 1972, long after the last of the classes you mention were built, and does not necessarily follow chronologically.

Many of the early diesels were built in small batches and didn't last very long. many of the shunter classes 01-14 were sold into industry. After the colapse of Rail Frieght in the 1960's there were too many shunters anyway and BR had plenty of reliable 03s,04s and 08s (with 09 & 10 varients). The rest were sold or scrapped. Some diesel classes lasted little longer than the steam engines they were supposed to replace!

Building dates for the various shunter classes were as follows:

01 - 1956; 02 - 1960-61; 03 - 1957-62; 04 - 1952 - 1962; 05 - 1955-61; 06 - 1958-60; 07 - 1962; 08 1952-1962; 09 - 1959-62; 10 1955-62 & 14 1964-65.

The Class 14s were designed for trip working which had virtually disappeared befor the last one was built! Many of the class were bought by ther NCB and British Steel and 16 of the class have made it into preservation (out of a clss of 56!)

Hope this begins to sort it all out for you.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

I think the first regular(ish) diesel locomotive hauled passenger service in the UK was on the North Sunderland Light Railway, who used the Armstrong-Whitworth 0-4-0, "Lady Armstrong", from 1934.

Thank you very much John. That is really helpful. You are a mine of useful information, of course I'd expect nothing less from a man of your seniority.

That early? Wow, I had no idea. Thanks.

And class 11 was even earlier (1945 says Wikipedia) as this was the LMS class from which the 08s were derived.

I believe that the class numbering system was based roughly on power, so Class 01 would be the least powerful ...

James
As it happens I am the webmaster of the Heritage Shunters Trust www.heritageshunters.co.uk
We aim to preserve, for future generations to enjoy, at least one of every class of shunter that ever worked on British Railways. We have examples of every class with the exception of Class 09/10/12/13.
We will never get a Class 12 however because there is only one still in existence based at the Spa Valley Railway and sadly the three Class 13's were cut up before any could be preserved. We are working on acquiring a Class 09 and Class 10. If you require any further information about any of our locomotives, preservation work or require any information please don't hesitate to get in touch either by using this forum or the HST email address from the website and I will reply as soon as possible.
Regards
Andrew Wilson (Brillo)
Webmaster HST www.heritageshunters.co.uk

Welcome to the site Brillo,

Hope you will continue to post and keep us up to date with your trust as well as post on other topics.

Best wishes for Christmas and 2009.

John H-T.

Hello Brillo, welcome to the Railway Forum. Do you intend trying to get steam shunters as well. A bit more difficult I would think as too many have been lost for ever.

Thanks for the welcome and good wishes.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone on the forum.
John H-T - I visited the EVR last year and must say that the 03's and 37075 looked superb in their sparkling blue livery (my era was the early 1980's!). I must say I was extremely impresssed with the line, rolling stock and your friendly, knowledgeable staff. I will probably visit again in 2009.
In answer to DSY011's question - I don't think that there are many steam shunters left however we are primarily concerned with diesel shunters. We also have a few industrial (not ex-BR) shunters in the collection. We do have steam 3183 (on loan to the NRM at Shildon) and 3188 (at Rowsley) and if any others were made available for sale we would consider them rather than letting go to the scrapman.
The problem with small engine preservation is that most enthusiasts contribute to the big engine societies (tractors, grids etc) and forget, or ignore, the small engine societies.
We have a small but loyal membership of about 80 individuals but only a handful of people who actually work on the engines and we don't have oodles of cash to throw about due to the low membership figures. That is why restoration takes so long and everything is in a queue. We do hope to have D2139, 12061 and D2866 running in 2009 and work can then start on the next ones in the line up.
Regards
Brillo

Brillo,

The EVR has a Home fleet gala Weekend 28th February/1st March when hopefully both 03s and Class 20 D8001. Disappointingly from your point of view they will all be running in Green.

They will be supported by the Railwy's DMU fleet including "Iris."

I will be there both days.

Hope to see you then.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Syd we are busy overhauling one of our Andrew Barclay 0-4-0Ts. Have a good Christmas.

Thanks for the reply Brillo, I agree with you about most enthusiasts contribute to the big engine societies. I on the other hand like the small hard working locos, be they steam or diesel, but with a slight bend towards steam as you can see from my model locos. Unfortunately I am not very good at building my own locos from kits so I don't have any that were not RTR.

Thank you Brillo, very informative and helpful. And welcome to the forum.

I always assumed (clearly incorrectly) that the classes were purely chronological.

Thanks again

James

Hanson has a 03 and a 08 still in service in Wales