Loco haulage North Wales Coast
 

Wales and Borders are to hire a Virgin trains class 57 locomotive to haul coaches on scheduled services from Saturday 10th December to Friday 16th December (Sunday excepted).

Expected workings:

Saturday:
0637 Bangor to Manchester Piccadilly
0953 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
1335 Holyhead to Manchester Piccadilly
1742 Manchester Piccadilly to Chester

Monday to Friday:
0557 Holyhead to Manchester Piccadilly
1003 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
1320 Holyhead to Manchester Piccadilly
1741 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead.

Enjoy!

DO YOU KNOW IF ARRIVA WILL CONTINUE THIS SERVICE FOR THE MONDAY AND TUESDAY (19TH AND 20TH)?

THANKS:confused:

All well it is not long now untill the proposed end of class 57 hauled 390s on the north wales line. During this summer I made a trip along the North Walkes coast, had to choose between the Class 57 and Mk2 ATW service and the Class 57 hauled 390, I ended up going with the 390 since I think there is more chance of seeing mk2s again rather than a pendolino. Enjoyed the ride in the summer.

"North Wales Train News" is reporting that Arriva Trains Wales are thinking of using Class 57 hauled trains again on the North Wales coast from the September 2007 timetable change.
This is to free up some of their 158's while they are fitted with ERTMS equipment for the Cambrian Line.

Wonder if it will be the 1003 Mcr Picc - Holyhead again.

Yes David,
I believe they are looking at the same weekday diagram again..........
05:56 Holyhead - Manchester
10:03 Manchester - Holyhead
13:20 Holyhead - Manchester
17:41 Manchester - Holyhead

I didn't go on this last year, with people telling me that it would be likely to be the last time they do it. I am definitely going on this if it comes back on this route.

The latest "rumour" from North Wales Train News is that EWS Class 67's are now likely to be used instead of the Virgin 57's.

Well it definitely looks like something is going to happen. Arriva are creating a 'diary' of the train refurbishment programme.

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/T...rbishment.aspx

It is rumoured that EWS Class 67 haulage of the usual ATW Manchester-Holyhead services could start this week.

Class 57 haulage North Wales Coast
 

Do I understand from this that Pendilino services to London will be discontinued or will they be hauled by another locomotive class. Perhaps they will be substituted by Super Voyagers which would be a retrograde step.

Submarine:confused:

The Virgin services should remain the same with 390s being hauled by class 57s. It is whether the Arriva Trains Wales service from Manchester-Holyhead will be hauled by a class 57 or 67.

As David says this particular thread refers to Arriva Trains Wales services...... BUT............next year the Holyhead-Euston Virgin Pendolinos ARE going to be replaced by Voyagers:(

Umm - I reckon the rail authorites have lost the plot swopping around francitizes . Now have are have to move around the rolling stock around so that they can run trains rather than built more rolling stock that suit the track they will run on.

I agree with you Robbo but in this case Virgin are keeping the North Wales-Euston services as part of their West Coast franchise. As they are looking for ways to avoid having to loco-haul Pendolinos from Crewe to Holyhead and back they have decided to change to an upgraded Voyager with better catering facilities. As the government are unlikely to electrify the route from Crewe to Holyhead the next best thing would be to operate the North-Wales-Euston services with some sort of electro-diesel train.
Bombardier have the technology and have successfully produced such trains in France but despite all their "green spoutings" the government in this country don't seem interested.

"Royal" 67005 is reported to be at Crewe for North Wales coast driver training.

I wonder if this will be made up of 6 coach Mk2s like last time, or 4 coach set like in 2004/5.

It's looking like 6 Arriva liveried Mk2's although I'm not sure if all 6 will be unlocked :)

An EWS Class 67 hauling 4 Arriva liveried Mk2's has been doing driver training runs today between Crewe and Holyhead.

Despite the regular training runs rumour has it that Class 67's and stock are now unlikely to be used by Arriva Trains Wales.
ATW are reported to be getting some Class 180's for their long-distance services which will free up stock to replace the Cambrian 158's while they are being fitted with ERTMS equipment.

That's interesting, I have a mate who is leaving my TOC to join the newly formed WSMR (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway). Their consists have class 67 traction, so I wonder if it has anything to do with this.

John,
This particular driver training was for Arriva Trains Wales as they had not used Class 67's before. The last time they had a shortage they used Class 57's.
The WSMR haven't started training runs yet but as you say they will be using Class 67's with a push/pull set. They hope to start a regular service next Spring and will, to some extent, be competing against Arriva Trains Wales. There have been a couple of exploratory visits to Wrexham by the EWS VIP train and loco.

OK thanks for that info John; and perhaps the lack of a definite start date for WSMR might explain why my mate is being so secretive about when exactly he is leaving. ;)

Interesting decision to use a class 180. I suppose it is better for passenger on/off loading and acceleration. Also the standard class interior in almost ideantical to the 175s. Wonder if there will be a declassified first class coach :D .

Is this the route that go Via Newton Le Wilows and Warrington and will there be a gaurds van for my bike ?

I think they will keep the first class coach. The Welsh Assembly have been pushing for a "business class" rail service between South and North Wales and it looks like this is Arriva's way of providing it. It certainly makes sense for ATW to take over some of the 180's as they have a lot in common with the 175's and have the same route availability.
A 3-car 175 and a 180 working in multiple would almost be a real train:D

Don't get too excited John.:(
If the Class 67 and stock takes over in the interim period you might be lucky but otherwise you're stuck with the ATW 175's or whatever your beloved Northern throws up:)

I think i will send them an email and see what they say.

Ps. are the class 67's unreliable ?

I don't think so.

Its just that i got the impresion of them being un reliable tas didn't quite understand the post below !

If the Class 67 and stock takes over in the interim period you might be lucky but otherwise you're stuck with the ATW 175's or whatever your beloved Northern throws up.(frm swiss trains)


Can you explain in a bit more detail [please !

John,
Arriva Trains Wales are going to have a shortage of trains between now and next summer while some of their class 158's are out of service being fitted with ERTMS equipment.
Originally they were going to use a Class 67 loco (on hire from EWS) and four of their own coaches (one of which is a guards van) on some of the services between Manchester and Holyhead (Via Newton-le-Willows and Warrington). This would release a Class 175 which could then be used to free up other units to replace the 158's.
Because Arriva Trains Wales are now rumoured to be getting some Class 180 DMU's, the Class 67 and coaches might not be needed.

You asked:
"Is this the route that go Via Newton Le Wilows and Warrington and will there be a gaurds van for my bike ?"

I replied:
Don't get too excited John.
I said this because I thought you would regard a loco and four coaches as being better than the normal DMU's on this line and if it didn't happen you might be disappointed.

If the Class 67 and stock takes over in the interim period you might be lucky
Meaning.....If they use the Class 67 and coaches UNTIL the Class 180's are available THEN you WILL get a guards van for your bike but only if you happen to use one of the services operated by it.

but otherwise you're stuck with the ATW 175's or whatever your beloved Northern throws up
Meaning......If they don't use the Class 67 and coaches THEN you WONT get a guards van for your bike because ATW's Class 175's and Northern's DMU's don't have guards vans.

Does that make sense?

I still can't understand how I gave you the impression that Class 67's were unreliable:confused:

Thanks i just get confused somtimes, i would rather travel on any train what Arriva Trains Wales provides rather the clapped out ones Northern Provide.

Quick question what is the ERTMS equiptment and what does it do please !

Is there a reason why Northern can't do a simmler thing to ARRIVA and operate loco haulage Trains especially MAN Airport and Blackpool L/Pool Express !

Cost would be the main reason. It wold be a really bad operation for finance espdeically if the locomotive or coaching stock breaks down, which can be a disaster in the Manchster Airport area with the limited pltfrom space plus loads of services.

When Virgin XC hired out a class 90 and DVT, there kept being issues with the DVT breaking down, plus some of the coaches lost lighting so it would be a really expensive operation.

John,
This is a very simplified description of ERTMS. It stands for European Rail Traffic Management System and is a way of controlling train movements without the use of conventional trackside signals.
It uses a type of mobile phone technology to inform the driver of the state of the track ahead and tells him/her what actions to take. The train is being constantly monitored by the system and if the driver does not respond correctly the train will be stopped. It's an attempt to devise a standard train control system throughout Europe and amongst other things it enables trains to run closer together on high speed lines and on single track routes such as the Cambrian in Wales.
Mobile phone type masts have to installed at regular intervals alongside the track and all the trains using the route have to be fitted with the ERTMS control system together with receivers and transmitters.
If you want to read up about ERTMS there is a website at http://www.ertms.com/default.htm

David has given you the main reason........cost.:(
Arriva only tend to use loco-hauled trains when there are no DMU's available for short term hire.
I heard today that ATW are definitely getting some Class 180 DMU's so the Class 67 and coaches will be very short lived if it even starts.

The Liverpool Daily Post carried this article on 4th Dec.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2007/12/04/bigger-trains-to-give-first-class-cardiff-service-55578-20198816/

Very interesting thank you chaps well worth a trip Between Manchester & Netwon Le Willows wether it is a 180 or Loco Haul which from what i read on wilkapedia the 180's don't go back to ANGEL Trains untill 2008 so Loco Haul may be short lived but will give pleanty of interest.

It woldent be two bad if Northern used Loco haulage for Blackpool but yet as you say it's the cost.

"Loco Haulage to Blackpool those where the days"

Question how can they Replace a six coach Loco Hauled almost full to the brim train Between Liverpool and Blackpool with a two coach 156 ?

Surely though, TnT Class 37/4s and Mk3 stock must provide good performance?