![]() |
Smoke Detectors and Driver Comforts.
Are British diesel and electric locos fitted with smoke detectors and fire extinguishing systems?
I am asking this question as a result of an incident that occured in Switzerland during the "Gotthard 125" celebrations in September. A special passenger train laid on to shuttle enthusiasts between the two main exhibitions at Erstfeld and Biasca was being hauled by one of the modern Class 484 electric freight locos. As it was passing through one of the many tunnels on the Gotthard route it's fire detection/extinguishing system activated and the loco was shutdown. The train remained stranded, partly in the tunnel, until an older electric loco arrived to rescue it. It appears that the Class 484's smoke detection system was activated by smoke lingering in the tunnel from two steam specials that had passed through earlier. The daily operating instructions warned against electric trains following the steam specials at less than 5 minutes headway but obviously this wasn't enough. I was wondering if this could happen in the U.K. especially as steam specials on our mainlines are much more common than in Switzerland. |
There is a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors on the 185s.
|
Most safety system interventions on British traction can be over ridden to prevent the line being blocked (so long as the pertinant Rulebook requirements are complied with). I'd be surprised if a UK unit was stranded due to experiencing a spurious fire alarm activation.
But no doubt someone will come along shortly and give me an example where this hasn't been the case ;) |
Most locos that run on NR metals have a fire system that detects and can fire automatically, it can also be fired manually by the driver.
The exception, (of course there is an exception) being the GM locos. i.e the 66/67. These locos have a fire detection system but no engine room fire bottles to suppress any fire. The only equipment these locos have on board is one red extinguisher in each cab. Not to sure about the 57s as they are a refurbished GM engine in a class 47 shell. If memory serves me correctly even the 59s have integral fire bottles in the engine room. The only thing to remember if on a loco the fire bottles do go off, we don't go into the engine room as the air is sucked out by the bottles going off. Les |
Quote:
|
(Just idle speculation on my part, as usual)
Maybe the older locos have the Halon fire extinguising cylinders - which do require ventilating before you can go into the room or engine space Halon is now banned, and nothing else works as well:- not even carbon dioxide. So maybe newer locos dont have anything fitted because there is no similar way of extinguishing electrical fires. I bet the Swiss have a way. They are bound to be 10x more efficient. |
Quote:
http://www.john.p.whitby.btinternet.co.uk/11323.jpg |
I have been checking through my books and magazines and it appears that some of the newer electric locos operating in Switzerland are fitted with heat detectors as opposed to smoke detectors.
Obviously the loco in my story must have had more than a heat detector for it to have been affected by the steam loco's smoke. Although it was a Swiss owned loco it was also equipped and certified for use in Italy where the fire regulations are much stricter so perhaps the fire-detection system was more sensitive than a loco only fitted with Swiss equipment? The loco manufacturers don't name the actual firefighting material but it seems to be based on nitrogen/argon/carbon dioxide. |
Quote:
Les |
I wonder if it's anything like the story I heard about the Class 66 purchase options. Alledgedly the people at London Ontario offer 7 levels of cab comfort - needless to say most British locos have level 1. I expect the accountants over here have calculated that it's cheaper to medically retire a deaf driver or two rather than fork out on expensive sound insulation.
|
Quote:
There's one thing, You know you've done an 11.5 hour shift when you've been on a 66 for most of it. The noise is absolutley abismal, you are thrown about from one side to the other, cab doors open on the move and when you are in the little cab (No 2 end) and the fans start up you just can just about hear the vigilance when it goes off, the heaters have only two temps extremly cold or extremly hot. Apart from that they are grrrrrrrrreat, they do tend to keep going. A fault booked at happening at 75mph you know nowt been done when it come out tested on shed no fault found. Class 67s although a bit quieter in the cab, practically the same driver comfort level. The doors to the engine room tend to open on the move normally going up hill in notch 8 (full power) and because we are sat in the middle of the cab we can't reach them to close so we are deaf by the time we can shut off power a bit. Oh the trials and tribulations of an EWS driver Three things a railway fitter must be able to write before being passed out: 1. tested on shed no fault found NFF 2. For home depot attention 3. Unable to fault. Les |
I passed on one of the more cynical responses to this thread to a nephew who is a mainline driver. He sent me the two links hereunder:
http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/...adline_issued/ http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/...class_66_cabs/ Mike |
Quote:
It's just so typically British that instead of paying a few extra grand per loco at the time of purchase, the FOCs are now wasting money in Heath-Robinson style bodges with headphones and portable aircon units. By the end of this fiasco they'll probably have spent far more and still end up with a loco that isn't as quiet and vibration-free as GM could have originally made it. (PS - apologies to Swisstrains for shamelessly hijacking his thread :( ) |
Quote:
But I will say that on the 2nd link it say GBRF and Freightliner are positivley looking at improvements but what about the countries largest freight operator. EWS appears to avoided all union contact on the matter and the drivers can not take action without union backing. This matter sems to have died a death. Les |
Quote:
Most people know how noisy and uncomfortable life on the footplate could be in the days of steam but it does no harm to point out that working conditions on modern traction often leave a lot to be desired. In a way I hope that you and Les have well and truly gone off-topic because I would hate to discover that modern British locos aren't fitted with fire suppression systems simply to save money as appears to be the case with driver comforts.:( At the moment I am trying to find the specs for the Class 66 type locos operating in Mainland Europe (not the EWS ones:) ) and also what the Germans fit as standard on their modern diesel locos both in terms of driver comforts and fire suppression. |
Quote:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_view/article/2007/11/8009/ge_enters_uk_loco_market.html |
Well that's certainly a step in the right direction. Let's hope that this time they actually consult real drivers when they put together the cab design, and do some field trials.
I've never heard of a GE JS37ACi - I wonder if it'll be a scaled down version of those thumping great Dash locos (UK loading gauge permitting). Also I note that they mention AC, so presumably they are talking about a hybrid diesel/electric ? Makes sense I suppose. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
In fact you're quite right. I've just seen it on Chris Barrie's Machines - He's been crawling all over a FrightLiner 66.
|
Swisstrains is right. I've just seen the program too.
|
Smoke Detectors and Driver Cmforts
The older British Rail designed diesel locomotives are fitted with a fire detection system that uses heat detectors not smoke detectors, should a high heat source be detected a warning bell rings and the driver must shut down the engine and activate the fire bottles (CO2).
Certain classes ; 33 ,73 and 47/7 are fitted with a fully automatic system that after detecting a high heat source will shut down the engine and then operate the bottles totally out of the control of the driver. Class 59/2 are the only GM locomotive operating in the UK with a fire supression system, class 66 were deemed to be too reliable and therefore safe to need a fire supression system ! On the question of cab comforts GBRf are testing new air suspension drivers seats and also have a air cooling system under trial, other operators do not seemed that bothered. The main reason for not fitting the GM option of comfort cabs was the age old problem of loading gauge and where to put the kit , if you look at the new 66's being for EWS operations in Europe you can see an air conditioning unit bolted to the cab roof . |
Thanks for the info "Shiny":)
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:39. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.