Measuring train speed in youtube videos
 

For Austria, Swiss and Germany, it is relatively easy to clock the time between 100 or 200 meter markers. But on French railway it is difficult. Does anyone know the standard of placing the km markers along French railways?

Good luck with that.
I have some French SNCF signalling information, and some of it is definitely weird.
The mechanical signals definitely are strange beasties.
You might need to look for telegraph poles and count them to time the train speed.
Most USA and Aussie working time tables during the steam era had a table at the rear denoting the various train speeds from the number of telegraph poles passed in a given time.
Very few of our soot belchers had speedos.
Mind you, most of our soot belcher hoggers knew when they were going a tad fast when the loco began knocking on the curves.
We only have half and full km pegs (half and full mile pegs back in the sooty times) displayed along the perway here.
Steve.

Related to "Measuring train speed in youtube videos"
 

Hello aussiesteve. Thanks for the notes.

I have been trying to count the poles with a stopwatch handy. But the poles and the (100m or 200m) hectometer signs are so irregular, it's not usually possible to get a good start for a km and then the end, to start/stop the stopwatch.

I was just wondering if there is information anywhere about how the hectometer signs are used in France. By that I mean the standard for installation. There seems to be different distances between signs. Not meaning "not at 100m or 200m" distance between intervals, but my question is why there are different intervals. My search on the Internet for "french use" has been without success.

However, it's not a big deal, life will go on without that knowledge :D

Stay Healthy, strauss44

G'day Strauss,
You might be more successful if you post your question in one of the European rail forums.
There are numerous people who can speak English who can respond to questions about European railways.
I have scanned through the couple of copies of French SNCF signalling documents that I possess.
While I am not able to Parler, I can get the basics of some of the material.
The only distance tableau that I can discover are the Mirliton for approach to signals that are awkward to see.
Plus, ones to denote the distance of a Canton section, or approach to various infrastructure.
I would presume that for most of the Main Line SNCF network, much of the section information is digital display in the cab.
That would include the location of the train en route.
I did travel aboard the TGV when in France in 2000.
I was VERY impressed with the double decker electric train as it stomped around at 280 kph.
Much of the scenery was just a blur.
So, I did not notice any line side distance markers.
Telegraph poles along the railway have become a thing of the past here.
Circuit phones no longer used for railway communication, today being all radio communication.
Steve.

Mobile phone apps will give you a GPS derived speed. It worked fine for me in the driving cab - don't know if you can get a decent satellite lock in the saloon but it's worth a try.

Cheers, John.

Hi Beeyar Wunby, The mobile GPS probably works fine when I am on the train, going places. But if I am watching the train cab ride video from the comfort of my recliner in my living room, I strongly expect that my GPS won't help me.

Fair enough.:cool:

From a different angle - can you get access to the countries' official online route documents? They will tell you the max speed that a train could be doing over any line. They often take a bit of interpreting, but it's worth it.

For example, in the UK our Sectional Appendix covers this...https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indust...onal-appendix/

Hi Beeyar (I hope that I am not too familiar), for English and German I could handle the search, but, with apologies for my lack of French, getting things from the French might be tricky "for me". Nevertheless it's a good idea. If I have any success I'll report back. All the best, stay Healthy.

Hi Strauss.

Yes, good luck in your quest. Let us know if you find anything.

Keep safe, John

G'day Strauss,
Your question has prompted me to dig out any SNCF cab ride You Tube video clips that I possess.
I am not able to stream on line video at home, but have over the years grabbed various video clips while at the library.
I have just viewed one, featuring a metre gauge third rail emu rural line, from Bolquere Eyne to Latour de Carol.
And, yes there does appear to be KM distance posts positioned along the line.
A small square white tableau with what appears to be blue or black numerals.
Though, the clip quality is not very good, and I am not able to read the digits displayed when pausing the playback.
Train speed is naturally not very rapid, and I have seen speed boards denoting 15 kms.
Track speed appears to be in the 30 to 35 kph range excluding sharp curves with reduced speeds.
There also appear to be slightly larger tableau in blue with white numerals positioned at level crossings.
These I can read and are in the 30s ascending for each crossing.
I have no idea just what these tableau indicate, but may relate to the actual kilometric of the crossing.
Scrounging, I have only found one additional clip, a DB cab ride from Widen to Wissembourg.
Arriving at Wissembourg the signals etc change from DB to SNCF.
There are two white square tableau posts displayed, one showing 59, the other showing 57.
These are TOO close together to be KM posts, but appear to be identical in size to those in the first clip.
So, I have no idea of the purpose.
I did think that I possess other SNCF cab ride clips, but have not managed to unearth them.
The other clips unearthed display some of the SNCF mechanical signals in operation.
The intriguing facet of foreign railways is the differing safe working systems employed.
Though, as computerized train control systems encroach everywhere, that difference will dwindle.
I did also chance upon the old Burt Lancaster flick The Train on late night TV here last nite.
Supposedly shot in France.
Viewing that, I did keep an eye peeled for any distance km posts displayed.
Alas, I did not espy anything seeming to be akin to a km distance post.
Still, an entertaining old timer flick.
Steve.

I have my answer!
 

Howdy assiesteve. I have made some discoveries. There are hectometer posts on French lines, although not visible, or maybe not there, on very high-speed lines.

They are positioned on some tracks at 100m, on other tracks at 200m. On French tracks I have seen only short posts on the left side of the track with a white marker showing the sub-km numbers, although in a video you usually can't see then numbers.

But here is the reason why I couldn't see them, or count them easily. First, they are often hidden by grass or weeds, or they are located (hidden) just behind one of the posts for the overhead power lines.

Then at every full km they have a tall post with a larger board showing the full km. But those posts may be on the right side of the track, thereby interrupting the counting pattern on the left side of the track, easily missed at 140km.

The full-km markers are a mixed lot. Sometimes they are white boards with black or red letter, or black boards with white or blue letter.

Anyway, once you can spot the variation installed on a particular track, it’s not too hard to see them, count them and time them to calculate the speed.

Thanks for your input, Fritz from Canada.

G'day Fritz,
I am pleased that you have solved the situation.
As mentioned earlier, I am intrigued by the differing railway safe working systems employed around the globe.
There was a fair bit of technical information available, if you knew where to look on the www.
Alas, many railways are now restricting access to technical documents due to terrorism.
Plus, not being able to spruike the lingo is also a challenge.
One Canadian post that baffled me was the horizontal oblong board with a pair of dots.
It has been a while since I last viewed any Canadian cab ride video clips.
So, I now forget the presentation of the post, but think that is was a white board with black dots, though might be the other way around.
I had pondered if this was to do with flanger warnings due to the position of these posts.
I did finally manage to confirm the purpose.
This board being very different to that utilized in the USA.
No need for flanger warnings here, thankfully we don't suffer those horrific conditions.
Though, back towards the end of the soot belcher era here, a train did get stranded in snow.
The crew uncoupled the soot belcher in an attempt to ram through the snow.
The soot belcher then becoming stuck at a distance from the train.
The cattle had to hoof it to nearby farm houses to survive the conditions.
The train finally recovered after the snow melted.
And, I have stood for a couple of hours in snow protecting my train which had stalled.
I think that the worst incident that I know of occurred in Tasmania on the Melba branch.
Winter is nasty in that region of Tassie.
The Melba ore train derailed in a deep snow drift and became stranded.
Poor Tiny the driver had to endure around 72 hours stranded until a highrail vehicle was able to reach him.
He was permitted to keep the lead loco idling for heating and radio communication.
Each night that I was working on the South Line, I would hear TC call Tiny to check up on him.
You might imagine the reason for his nickname.
That did save him from fading completely away during that period of nil tucker.
I DETEST winter.
Steve.

Be careful trying to measure speeds from videos. There is not always an exact 1:1 comparison between true time and apparent times as measured on videos.

Hi Bevan, you of course correct, but it's fun anyway. I find that videos of slow trains are sometimes sped up. I haven't found any fast ones that were sped up. Also when the video is sped up you can more than not tell that it's a time-lapse.