Railway Sleepers
 

Now this thread is so sad I can't find anywhere else to put it. :p

I was recently at a preserved railway line in the South (no names) and I was looking at their new track that was in use for passenger trains, and guessed that their sleeper spacing had been stretched to at least 3' apart. It looked a bit odd.

What, I wondered, is the "correct" or standard sleeper spacing? Does it depend on rail weight, line speed, degree of curvature of the track, etc

I have just spent an hour on google and know a lot about garden design with second hand railway sleepers, but nothing about track design. I have tried search words such as sleepers and ties, track and permanent way but cant find a clue other than a hint that timber sleepers could be 2' apart.

On the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway we have a spacer for use when laying out sleepers to relay track. 2' seems about right but I can measure it for you next time I am at Wirksworth.

Incidently The EVR's new website was launched today at www.e-v-r.com

tell me about garden design....had a long and tedious argeument with the landscaper and wife about laying the sleepers flat...ie the proper way....I lost...:mad: (i wante bits of steel bolted to them.....

The four old ones (ex EVR) I have in my garden I have planted on edge and dug them in so that they are held together.

Should be about 26 to 28 sleepers to 60 ft of rail if bullhead,about 28 if flatbottom rails.
Only thing that will change that is line speed.
hope that helps
All the best,Ian.

Surely axle load is the determining factor. Some American lines are down to
16" now to carry 35 ton axle loads.

For determinig railway sleeper spacing one of the factor is Axle load.
ALong with this we have to take into account the dynamic load thats going to come on sleeper, Type of Sleepers etc
In Indian Railways Sleeper spacing for PSC sleepers on Broad Gauge is kept 60 cm for 52/60 kg rails

I've noticed when walking along the sleepers the spaces between sleepers is not always uniform. Thinking back I think the space between sleepers was about 2 feet average.

Mainline wooden sleepers on the Rhodesian Railways were set 2 foot apart. Concrete sleepers were about 18 inches apart. Steel sleepers were used where there was a problem with termites eating the wooden sleepers, other wise steel was only used in shunting yard and spurs.

Whilst I was travelling to Liverpool recently I noticed piles and piles of steel sleepers in a lineside yard between Stafford and Crewe - does anyone know where these are used, is it in freight sidings as suggested on this thread?

That's true. Although the spacing is uniform for the most part, the sleepers are slightly closer together in the region of the fishplates in order to give extra support to the most vulnerable part of the rail.

Sleeper spacings
Bullhead used to be commonly laid at 24 per 60ft length or about 750mm.
Closer together over the 4 sleepers at each end of the panel.
On CWR track minimum spacing is 26 / length or 700mm.
General relays now are at 650mm or 28 / L
Heavy traffic routes and steel sleepers are laid at 30 / L or 600mm spacing

Exactly where are steel sleepers used does anybody know?

Anywhere Network Rail feels like putting them.
They are used to my knowledge on all areas except those with 3rd rail.
Overhead electrification does not pose a problem.
Not normally used on the high speed main lines but are found on the slow lines alongside.
Many branches in the North West and North East have had many miles of them installed.
I was involved in laying about 25 miles of them on the Hull _ Seamer line over about 4 years.

Thanks Bryan - is that the new direction for railway building in the future (I expect they are cheap from India?) I shall keep my eyes open and see if I can spot any in situ.
Are they flat or ribbed and does fettling getting more difficult?

Sleepers used to be imported from US but more recently have been produced in UK by CORUS.
Steels are flat across between the rails then curve down into the ballast about a foot outside the rails.
Once the hollow of the underside (Its shaped like a flat topped U section but upside down) is bedded into the ballast they don't need much attention.

As I understand it steels are used where the traffic is light and the under surface is sound so they then can be laid without redoing the ballast.

I have got in my garden 4 railway sleepers, old wooden ones and the fishplate marks are still on them you can clearly make out how they were placed for the rails.
But I tried moving one a few weeks ago.....not a good idea, they "aint half" heavy, my pacemaker worked overtime (keep going you fool:D).
I dont know what to do with them, they are stacked neatly though, my son in law and his mate stacked them for me and they made them sweat.

48111

I know blokes who can lift them on their own - but it should take 4 men (H&S) using steel grips which are equally heavy. Trouble is there are hardwood and softwood sleepers. The softwood rot easily and can be very light, the hardwood are solid and extremely heavy and its impossible to tell which is which until you lift one. These sound like hardwood so could be worth selling on if you dont need them. If you do then they will last forever!!

There is another problem with hardwood sleepers: drilling the holes in them. We have to double drill them and it is still hard work hammering in the spikes! We also get through a lot of drill bits!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Well chaps, these old sleepers in my garden are absolutely solid and very heavy.
They are obviously very old, but how they have lasted over the years is amazing, something funnily enough that you dont think a lot about when you are working on the railway and riding over them every day. But when you come to own a few and look at how solid they are, well you appreciate their strength.

48111

Hi 48111 where can I acquire some "old" sleepers "free" for my allotment I could use about 10. For the compost/manure heaps
I have seen new ones for sale but at £15 each ??????

This may be of interest.
http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/railway.htm

Morning mate, well I doubt you will get any free, I acquired the ones I have when I moved here, but I have never bothered with them until recently because I wanted to put up a new greenhouse.

People who sell these things seem to be "cashing in" on them, they can be expensive, there is no doubt about that.

They do sell on e bay apparently, but even there the prices are dear.

48111

The EVR have quite a few second hand sleepers for sale at much less than £15. Biggest problem is transport. As has already been said sleepers are heavy - ten will need at least a large van/pick up.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Only got a Peugeot 106 & it belongs to the OH & she is very wary of what goes in the back.

If you were not quite so far away I would offer to pick them up for you in my big van.:D

Thanks mate it's only a dream my heaps are made of old pallets got for free from skips.

Most of my winter firewood is old pallets from a mates motorcycle shop.

Although I will now get the winter fuel allowance this winter.:D

From a railway component weight chart. New material.
Hardwood sleepers - 92kg
Softwood sleepers - 54kg

Surely there's a machine that would drill four holes at once the railway companies would have had one.

Slight problem with that statement.
The Railway companies did have multihead drilling machines but they also had a lot of sleepers to drill and more money available to invest in such equipment.
Even then they still occaisionally had to hand drill the fastening holes.
At least we have progressed to using powertools capable of doing the job.
Have you ever tried drilling a hardwood sleeper let alone drilling the holes for a complete pointwork layout?

I just thought one of the rail companies would have an old drill/machine surplus to requirements.
Would this help?
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/...patterns-15794

Old machines are just that - old. They leak both oil and fumes and are fierce to use for too long. Dont forget the ear covers and make sure your back is in best shape before attempting this manouver. As for points - its always best to watch someone else do it!!

I have been looking around at advertisements for railway sleepers, not that I want any, but it was out of interest. The ones I have inheritated are a "pain in the wotsit" so I dont want any more.

But why are they so expensive ?

48111

I understand that new hard wood sleepers are £45 each. Then of course there is the cost of drill bits!

Our problem at Wirksworth is that our speed of relaying is now outstripping our supplyer's ability to source them form Network Rail!

Incidently we only drill three holes in each baseplate: two on the inside and one on the outside.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Wonder how much they cost and what delivery is like? Nothing and delivered tomorrow would be favourite!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Well John, like I said, why are they so expensive ?

48111

No idea 48111. The ones we use are reclaimed from Network Rail and I think we pay about £12-15. That may include delivery, which is a not insignificant cost!

We sell our Garden Quality Sleepers for £5 - buyer collects.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Tell me about it! We have electric drills powered by a generator - we like soft wood sleepers and we will not be around when they need changing. Our successors will probably relay the whole line on concretes eventually!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Ok mate, are you keeping ok ?

The ones I have got stacked in my garden are like I said somewhere else in this thread, old ones but still solid, the place where the fishplates were fixed can still be clearly seen.

But they are in my way, and they are so heavy,"bloomin eck" I cant lift one. I might have had a go twenty years ago but not now.

Anyway It looks like I am going to have to work round them, because I dont really want to get rid of them, they have obviously seen some railway service somewhere, and I bet they had some steam engines over them.

Silly old sod "aint I" :D

48111