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-   -   Class 20's Shunting Duties (https://www.railwayforum.net/showthread.php?t=13803)

Master Cutler 22nd November 2014 13:46

Class 20's Shunting Duties
 
Chatting with some friends about class 20 workings the consensus was that most duties if not all were carried out coupled in pairs and only on very rare and exceptional occasions would they be rostered single loco into long distance freight work.
However, we had a regular single 20 working back in the 70's as I recall.
This was from Westhouses shed, when every morning a single 20 would arrive light engine at Teversal colliery to shunt rakes of wagons from Silver Hill colliery onto the Teversal sidings ready for collection by two 20's or a 47 for onward dispatch down the Pleasley colliery branch to the Midland Main line.
This shunting was necessary following the closure of the Skegby Teversal branch post Beeching which cut off the Silver Hill rail link with the Central line.
However, the reason the 20 was employed was because the work of moving full rakes of coal wagons was far too arduous for the Hunslet shunters up and down the gradients they had in the colliery yard and splitting the loads into smaller rakes would have been too time consuming.
Therefore, would this work that the single 20's were doing be classed as shunting?
Secondly, were the 20's ever employed single to perform main line duties?
These days preserved single 20's can often be seen pulling some quite hefty rail tours.

pre65 22nd November 2014 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Cutler (Post 82530)

These days preserved single 20's can often be seen pulling some quite hefty rail tours.

To be honest, apart from preserved lines, I've only seen pictures of them in pairs.

I thought forward vision was the reason they were paired cab outwards.

Beeyar Wunby 23rd November 2014 12:57

When I started driving in the late 90's, DRS seemed to be the only FOC running 20s regularly on the mainline.

GBRF and others seem to have jumped onto the bandwagon since.

Speaking to some of the DRS guys, my understanding is that it's always been their SOP to have 2 class 20s (and a 2nd driver or trainman on the trailing loco) when they're used on their power station diagrams. This is also the case when using other types of locos in the consists.

Since 20s have long noses it makes operational sense to have a pair so they can run cab-first, American style.

Reliability is the issue here rather than than tractive effort - a flask train is only a few hundred tonnes but there would be a hell of a 'kerfuffle' if one ever broke down and needed assistance.

BW

swisstrains 23rd November 2014 21:42

When first introduced in the late 1950's the English Electric Type 1 diesels (later Class 20) often worked both freight and passenger trains single-handed. Even when operating nose first the forward visibility was no worse than the steam locos that they replaced.
I remember seeing newly built Type 1's on test from the Vulcan Foundry hauling, if I'm not mistaken, just one Stanier brake coach. ..........they didn't half shift!!:D

pre65 23rd November 2014 22:40

Where I lived type 20 were rare, but type 15 were common.

Never saw them in pairs.:D

Here is a type 15 from my early days.

http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...&cutoffdate=-1

DSY011 23rd November 2014 22:45

A lot more forward view on a Class 20 than on a 20th Class Garratt.
http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...arrett-med.jpg

saxokid 2nd December 2014 05:06

Always see pair of 20s along the North wales coast on RHTT working or flasks..

trophy 2nd December 2014 15:56

just seen a class 20 in huddersfield station it waited for two TPE units then set off towards manchester.

eagle125 16th December 2014 19:04

Hi Master Cutler,
Living near Shirebrook depot in the 70`s Class 20`s where a common site (and sound) and i must own up to thinking how ugly they were especially in the BR blue

but now i`m trying to build a model railway i see them differently in some of the liveries the have
Cheers eagle

Madcaravanner 19th December 2014 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle125 (Post 82754)
Hi Master Cutler,
Living near Shirebrook depot in the 70`s Class 20`s where a common site (and sound) and i must own up to thinking how ugly they were especially in the BR blue

but now i`m trying to build a model railway i see them differently in some of the liveries the have
Cheers eagle

I lived in Clay Cross so my childhood spotting spot was Clay Cross Station and of course we had very regular coal and coke trains into and out of the Coking plant at Wingerworth for a long time it was only class 20's due to their Route Availability
eventually they gave way to class 56's and 58's on merry-go-rounds but there was always two up on the trains but they were long and heavy

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...8J4fLBrSnY7GCZ

Master Cutler 19th December 2014 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madcaravanner (Post 82789)
I lived in Clay Cross so my childhood spotting spot was Clay Cross Station and of course we had very regular coal and coke trains into and out of the Coking plant at Wingerworth for a long time it was only class 20's due to their Route Availability
eventually they gave way to class 56's and 58's on merry-go-rounds but there was always two up on the trains but they were long and heavy

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...8J4fLBrSnY7GCZ

Thanks Gray and eagle 125,
I have just been looking at page 42 of An Illustrated History of Mansfield's Railways by Paul Anderson and Jack Cupit and it shows a single 20 nose first exiting Bolsover Doe Lea Valley station going to Glapwell colliery in 1971.
Suppose I've answered my own question.

bramleyman 19th December 2014 22:05

When I first saw one, they were working singularly, but later in pairs, and I got to photo quite a few, but sadly can't locate the pictures right now.

Madcaravanner 22nd December 2014 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeyar Wunby (Post 82538)

Reliability is the issue here rather than than tractive effort - a flask train is only a few hundred tonnes but there would be a hell of a 'kerfuffle' if one ever broke down and needed assistance.

BW

Actually it's brake force on a flask train and you tend to see one twenty and one 37 on flasks and the consist is usually only one or two wagons unless it is a military train when it will have a coach and armed guards in the train


But back to pure class 20 train and shunting duties here is one of my favourites NOT my photo worse luck (borrowed from FB so some folk may not see this)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1117498&type=1

HM181 27th December 2014 16:01

Just after the miners strike in1985, we had class 56 locos to go from Mills to Fiddellers Ferry Power Station with 36 HAA in tow.
On arrival at Warrington, we had to run round the HAAs at the Canal sidings, the drop down to the football sidings and then RR the train again. Each RR could take hours before we could get into the Power Station.
Whilst waiting to go to FF, streams of MGR's from up north came into Warrington powered with nose to nose Class 1 Bo-Bo's complete with a fitted Brake Van with a guard riding on the brake. This means that the trains would just propel into the football sidings , having only run round the one time, whilst we had to RRx2.
This made the job back to the mill over 16 hours.
Some folk loved that but not for me.

HM181 28th December 2014 15:17

The only time I got on a Type 1EE was on the weed killer round the Leeds/Skipton Area in 1986 or so. This weed killer was run by BR staff before contractors got hold of it.

Master Cutler 28th December 2014 18:35

The Silver Hill-Teversal20's duties were discussed again this lunchtime down at the pub with a couple of ex Silver Hill Colliers.
We recalled a sad event that happened during the early1970's with the 20 shunting rakes from Silver Hill down the old Skegby branch.
Local children from Teversal would play near the track in the extensive Manor Woods.
On one occasion one of the young lads was crossing the track when the shunted wagons appeared and in his haste to get away ended up under one of the wagons, resulting in his leg being amputated.
He survived but it was a huge shock to the local community.
I recall the incident, but it was interesting for us to reflect how back in those days there was little heed payed to railway safety compared to today.

Tony 29th December 2014 12:18

Yes, an unfortunate accident but back then people were expected to look out for themselves and didn't expect the Nannies to rush in. When I was a lad (born 1941), my mates and I played near railway lines, of which there were many in the area where I lived. We were expected to keep a good lookout for anything moving and to appreciate that a railway wagon was much heavier and harder than we were. No-one that I knew were ever involved in an accident.

wyvern 29th December 2014 12:40

Pennies on the rail?

DSY011 29th December 2014 19:16

As a young boy (about 6 years old) I use to go down to the Bulawayo loco shed most days. They were doing a lot of building at the time, with a new coaling stage and new ash pits for the new Garratt's that were arriving. No one ever chased me away or told me off. I was offered rides on loco's that were being moved about, and even allowed to shovel some coal into the firebox. I could only lift a 1/4 shovel of coal and drop it through the firebox door. I did often get into trouble from my mother for the state of my clothes, and from my farther for upsetting my mother. Years latter, just before he died, my father told me that it was a dream of his to work on the footplate and that he envied me for having done so.

pre65 16th January 2015 15:07

Here is an interesting photo of a class 20, nose first, hauling a failed DMU.:)

http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...ith-failed.jpg


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