Safer level crossings ?
 

Seems Network Rail are getting £32 million to close 500 level crossings and make other more safe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24754358

Yes I read that this morning and wondered where I could find any detail about exactly which level crossings were to be closed. Presumably someone has come up with a list to arrive at the total number but any offers about where any detail might be found?

Looking at the "Leaning Locomotive" thread I stumbled on those videos of street running trains in America. I found them quite amazing. Considering the effort made in this country to keep trains separated from everything else. The line in Tampa Fla. running down what appears to be a newly built main street seems strange; I would have thought they could have isolated the track. It seems to be quite common over there in spite of having plenty of space, unlike the UK's cramped environment.
Was reading about those crossing closures, can't remember where but one was at Bloxwich on the Rugeley to Walsall line.

In my opinion for what it's worth there are no dangerous level crossings it's the idiots that ignore the red lights and warning signs like the woman on the bike in the news recently, people are responsible for their own actions, if they want to put their life in danger that's up to them so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Two and a half thousand people are killed on the roads in this country every year but I doubt the powers that be will be closing any roads, Britain is enough of a nanny state already, lets not go down that road any further please.

I absolutely agree. The level crossing at Ufton Nervet near here has unfortunately been in the news after two serious accidents. The first one some years ago was when someone parked their car on the crossing in a (successful) suicide attempt. Tragically it derailed an HST causing much death and injury. This morning's news is that they are planning to replace the crossing with a road bridge but, because of the layout on flat ground there, it's not going to be easy. I've said this ad nauseam but I would have thought an easy quick solution would be to replace all half-barrier crossings with full barriers to deter the idiots you mention.

There was a crossing near me that involves not only a dual track railway, but a tram line running at speed. There have been two occasions where people died, people who, like most folk nowadays are unused to railways, in poor visibiity. They have finally put in a footbridge, which to my mind should have been paid for by the developer of the adhjacent housing estate. There were neither locks nor indicators on the gates nor whistle boards. (which in many cases now, drivers are instructed to ignore at various times)

From their efforts thus far, network rail's idea of making them safer is closing them, but again the Govt needs to take a hard stance on this issue.
Any fatalities on a level crossing is the road users fault. No ifs or buts.
If a train is coming then you have no business being there.

That's right steam for ever, as I said earlier in a free country people are responsible for their own actions and suffer the consequences for those actions and should not try to blame anyone else.

Got to agree strongly a level crossing is dangerous only if it's used incorrectly

No quite true.

The RAIB put out a report recently(this year) about a fatality at a crossing where the blame was put squarly on the crossing operator. Apparently the warning lights were not at the correct luminous density and the driver had difficulty in seeing them in bright sunlight and as a result was killed when she failed to see that the barrier was down even though the lights were flashing.
Stuart.

How come she did not see the barrier across the road then?
I would have though a piece of something across a road at that height would not have been difficult to see even in bright sunlight. Perhaps people these days drive too fast in the hopes of beating a barrier if it should start to come down and cannot stop as a result. I have often seen people accelerate to get over the Holme crossing after the lights have started flashing and barely got underneath. No matter what is used idiots will always try to get by, over or underneath. In the good old days running into the gate would wreck the car but not these lightweight bits of metal and for all I know plastic modern barriers are made from.
John.

The fatality at Moreton-on-Lugg a few years ago was blamed squarely on the signaller. He became confused and opened the barrier when he should not have done.

The warning lights were not up to standard and therefore not legal and the brightness of the sun was a contributing factor.
The lady who died was middle aged and had her grandchild in the vehicle, who thankfully survived.
The RAIB gave the lights as a Causal Factor. The lady in question faced no blame.
Stuart

Rail Accident Investigation Branch Moor Bridge crossing first incident

THe RAIB is quite clear that Network Rail has a responsbility to assess the risks of crossings and apply protective measures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-24284737

Rail Accident Investigation Branch Moor Bridge crossing second incident

Transport Committee hold second evidence session on safety at level crossings

Sorry, but ANY level-crossing is safe, IF used in the correct manner.

Even a two year old knows that a flashing red light means "Danger Stop". A barrier or half barrier also means "Danger Stop". If people feel they can take a chance then that is not the fault of the railway. It is their own fault. The only down side is the effect it has on other people, the driver, passengers, witnesses and those left behind.

I agree with every word you say Sid, people are responsible for their own actions.
P/S, hope your wife is well on her way to a speedy recovery.

Plenty fatal level crossing events have taken place in South Africa too, the most notorious was a taxi driver who was transporting school children, passed all the stationary vehicles and was hit by a train resulting in the deaths of 10 kids. He got 20 years in jail but in my opinion the sentence was too light. :mad:

Well today Switzerland had a serious incident here is the report I got with photo

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/pr...DTHU=w120-h120

I have to agree with most of what has been said when it concerns dealing with most sane human behavior; however what if those who do have mental disorders or learning difficulties are faced with barriers that are less than complete blocks to a crossing, I.e. Half barriers? Do they actually understand the consequences of their actions when the train is coming? We all assume those using a crossing will do so understanding the reasons behind the flashing lights and why the barrier is down. There are other aspects to human behavior other than the plain stupid who risk life and limb to save a few minutes. Just a different view point to this thread.
Regards
Phil

More news about level crossing improvements.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25820925

Has anyone thought about legislation to introduce penalties for crossing while barriers are lowered and lights are flashing.
Assuming that most of those doing this are doing while driving a vehicle, I think a £1,000 fine + a 1-year driving ban is reasonable. CCTV needed at ALL level crossings allowing a clear view of number plates.
If the vehicle is hit, the drive has forfeited all right to compensation by the stupidity of his action and he/she will be required to make a mandatory contribution towards the cost of reparing the damaged train.

Compensation? The idiot could well be dead.
Isn't going through the "flashing lights at a crossing the same as running a red light?
One of the last crossigs on the Midland Main Line has been replaced by a bridge just south of Loughborough station & a very nice one too.

There are also many pedestrians hit by trains here in South Africa crossing railway lines at shortcut paths which they access through holes they have created in barriers/fences. Too lazy to use the bridges provided which may be only a few yards away.

It was the same in Rhodesia 27vet. I have seen many young kids run across the front of a train, but never had the misfortune to hit anyone. The closest I ever came to hitting a line crosser was an African woman with a 5 gallon can of water on her head. She had to jump out of the way and still managed to only spill a small amount of water.

You got it Syd. They are quite fit! :D

With respect Gents, we could discuss this topic until the cows come home as the saying goes, but there will forever be one out there to take that chance.

The level crossing on the BBC site is actually at Waterbeach, between Cambridge and Ely, and featured on the local news here again last night. With me, where there are No barriers, I am always weary about crossing even if the lights do not flash before the barriers descend, as like anything else, these too do get faults as we are aware.

Re the two youngsters killed at Elsenham a few years ago, when I worked on this line as a revenue Protection Inspector and needed to alight for whatever reason, the pedestrian crossing WAS always locked when trains were due to pass through, or stop. Sadly, these two girls were killed after I left that area, so don't know Why the gate wasn't locked.

I read in a paper this morning where a youngster originally from Pakistan, enquired about a train he wanted to catch and jumped down on to the trackside, putting his ear to the Live rail and obviously got electrocuted. He came here about 6 months ago, and apparently in Pakistan, they put an ear to the rail to listen for an approaching train. Ouch!

Network rail apologise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26478145

Hi everyone.

I have to agree with every post I have read here.

Level crossings are always safe enough if people don't misuse them.

Anyone who trys to get across while lights/barrier's are in operation is an idiot.

I never see why we should predict what idiots do or try to pander to them. Everyone knows what the dangers are. If they don't then what hope is there?


Also a question. If 500 are too close, that is a lot of disruption while finding new ways across the lines. I mean people moaning about how dangerous crossings are, will surely not want weeks and months of disruption all over the place as routes get completely altered.

Wow that is unbelievable.

There are a lot of Africans back home who still put their ear to the track to listen for an approaching train. Fortunately, the trains are so slow that there is not much chance of them being hit. The biggest problem is them running across the track just in front of the train.

Sometimes it's not that simple. I had the misfortune to witness another near-miss several evenings ago at the infamous Waterbeach AHB (Automatic Half Barrier) crossing.

A lady with wheely-suitcase alighted from the down train and started to walk across the road. Just as she was inside the barrier the sirens & wigwags started. She hesitated long enough for the barrier to drop behind her, so apparently blocking her escape. She then decided to continue, even though the rear of the down train was completely blocking her view of the up line.

She made it to the other side about 2 seconds before the GA non-stopper came through at 75 mph.

If she'd stayed put on the down side and waited inside the barrier, she would have been perfectly safe as the down train was gently moving away from her. But the fact that she was INSIDE the barrier un-nerved her and she decided to continue. This is unfortunate because the whole point of AHBs is that the other side of the road doesn't have a barrier in order to provide an escape route - but that's not obvious when the barrier is already behind you !

Most people don't appreciate that on many AHBs, when a train is running at linespeed there is only 7 seconds between the the barrier dropping and the first train arriving because it's treadle operated !

They see a manually operated crossing such as Downham Market where the barriers go down for a long time before the train arrives and assume that all crossings are the same. The delay on manually operated crossings is because the bobby can't clear the approach signal without interlock from the gates and so has to drop the gates well in advance of the approaching train - but conversely most AHBs are not tied into the signalling system.

My personal view as a driver is that AHBs are fatally flawed - they will be removed when the new signalling centres are fully running, but until then people are in significant danger.

If there is a plus side to this situation it's that this person will never do it again. She was terrified (as indeed were the rest of us).

BW

A very valid view BW, and as per my previous comments, not all of us are blessed with being of sound mind and able to reason. Some have mental impairments that can seriously mar their judgments of risk.
Is it not better to make level crossings safe by way of complete barriers, that are as fool proof as can be manufactured. Footbridges and road bridges are also a better alternative to barriers! However I know that would be both expensive and difficult in some instances.
I feel sure with today's technology we should be able to come up with a better way!
Just another view
Cheers
Phil