Hs2 on channel 4
 

Take a look at Pete Waterman getting steamed up over HS2 during a heated debate with Jon Snow and a NIMBY.

http://www.channel4.com/news/deadlin...2-rail-project

scroll down for the interview.

Poor old Joe Rukin:mad: Got a proper [well deserved] tongue lashing from one of our hero's.:p:p

They cant argue against common sense and the force of progress unfortunately. Try as they might and shout till the cows come home, these things will get built for the good of the nation and technology coupled with futuristic designs makes them so much better for the environment they pass through. The model shows the train above ground level whereas they have already shown that building the track bed with the rail head well below ground level and a slight raised bank right along the line virtually eliminates any track noise. Adding bushes does the rest to screen both trains and smother what noise does escape. Living close to a motorway is much worse than being next to a railway line.

hs2 ch4
 

pete knows his stuff,he certainly laid in to that fella..good for him,we need high speed rail as the roads are chockablock,one slight worry is,will we be able to afford to travel on them?i have to use the coach sometimes as i am priced off the railways-london manchester 26o+ if not booked in advance.

I agree; Pete Waterman does know his stuff, and I am an in favour of our country catching up with the rest of the world! We have to get cars off the road co's the alternative is to build more motorways and so more cars and polution! Who needs that. Our population is growing at a rate not seen since the war and we have to provide a sensible and sustainable transport system - Trains and trams have got to be the way forward. Bring it on!!! and well done Pete.

Pete's after a knighthood then!!??

Pete was great and was spot on when he stated that the NYMBY guy knew nothing about railways.

However, the guy did have one point I would agree with and that is that there would appear to be no intermediate stations. HS1 has two and the SNCF network has quite a few entry points onto convential rail to other population centres on the TGV network.

However, the guy did have one point I would agree with and that is that there would appear to be no intermediate stations. HS1 has two and the SNCF network has quite a few entry points onto convential rail to other population centres on the TGV network.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, you can easily see the NIMBYs' point; the line will travel through a whole area in their vicinity which isn't going to be of any benefit whatsoever to the local populace, who will be losing land, drops in property values, etc etc. Two or three (or more) stations in appropriate positions might at least get some on side. Perhaps a wider trackbed, with the facility for normal trains running along a parallel course, would at least give them a look in, and be of some use for THEM to commute, or whatever. :confused:

Yes Dave I agree

Hi Dave, I too agree that could be a solution to winning more hearts by adding a local service, in fact that should be a major consideration, but the investment has to be for the better of the wider community and country as a whole. The project from my understanding will take into account local concerns by building the line below ground level as mentioned by Klordger1900 previously.
By the way if ever it came to "my back yard" I would not stand in its way I would welcome the improvements.
Best regards
Phil

Making a new line useable to locals would be overly expensive and miss the point of having a high speed line. The transit time from London to Birmingham will be so quick that once you get UK trains scheduled in to the timetable and add in the European trains that UK plc are anticipating operating from afar then frequency of trains passing each way might get a bit of a nusance. I dont think it would take long for the railway companies across EU start looking to attract customers away from airlines at all costs.

Phil, I'd welcome ANY railway near me! Our railway in Gosport was closed to passengers in 1953, long before Beeching's railicide, and goods finished in 1969, MoD traffic to Bedenham stopped c.1991, and now the line's being turned into a 'dedicated busway'. Gosport is on a peninsula, and with a population close to 80,000, the two roads in and out are gridlocked at 'rush hours' (rush? - it's taken me over 50 minutes to get 3 miles by bus). Nearest station is Fareham (a half mile walk from the bus station) or Portsmouth Harbour (bus ride + £2.70 ferry ride).
ANY railway! :(

Have a look:-
http://daverowland.smugmug.com/Gospo...y-Past-Present

That's why I suggested a parallel line, which wouldn't affect the fast line. With track connections only at strategic points, the 'normal' line might also be of some further use in the event of 'fast line' breakdowns - affected fast trains could be rescued and moved to wherever via the slow line, so reducing delays to other fast trains. Compatible locos (preferably diesel) could be based at these strategic points to deal quickly with such eventualities. Of course, this won't happen - whenever did common sense and practicality ever prevail in our rail system? :confused:

HS1 has the Javelin's for "local" services which do not get in the way.

I wasn't suggesting lots of local stations. But probably, like HS1 at Ashford and Ebsfleet a couple of hubs.

Actually, from reports I've read, they DO get in the way - 'normal' trains have been affected, with stops being dropped from schedules, and longer journey times for those passengers not living in the right places. Regular passengers see themselves as having been left with a sub-standard service to allow those who can afford it to be whisked from A to B at high speed. Again, as someone else has pointed out, the high speed services benefit those with deep pockets at the expense of the average passenger. So what's new.... :D

Point taken David, but I wasn't aware of serious problems with the Javelins.

High Speed rail is not for the rich only. We travelled to Switzerland last by Eurostar and TGV. It took about 3 hours longer than by plane but it was so much easier and not huglely expensive.

Around £100 return London to Geneva.

Just going by a number of adverse reports with not many happy bunnies!
The return price you quoted isn't bad, I'm assuming that the further you go, the more economical it works out; just not very cheap if you're only travelling within the UK. However, I might have to investigate some Eurostar prices, I've just come back from Brno, in the Czech Republic by plane; less than two hours, but it's all the faffing around at airports that wears me down, maybe I'll see what the other, leg-friendly, options are for future jaunts. Is there a Senior discount for Eurostars etc?

Yes Dave we went by air to Vienna a while ago but it took 2hours at Heathrow just to get on the thing!

St. Pancras was a doddle and at Geneva straight on the train.

I did shop around for this deal, Eurostar and SNCF both offer senior discounts. I booked on two seperate sites. The Eurostar site gave me a good deal to Paris, but not that good if I booked through to Geneva.

Avoid a cross city journey in Paris if you can, its a real hassle, and change at Lille.

[QUOTE=Dave Rowland;62773]Phil, I'd welcome ANY railway near me! Our railway in Gosport was closed to passengers in 1953, long before Beeching's railicide, and goods finished in 1969, MoD traffic to Bedenham stopped c.1991, and now the line's being turned into a 'dedicated busway'. Gosport is on a peninsula, and with a population close to 80,000, the two roads in and out are gridlocked at 'rush hours' (rush? - it's taken me over 50 minutes to get 3 miles by bus). Nearest station is Fareham (a half mile walk from the bus station) or Portsmouth Harbour (bus ride + £2.70 ferry ride).
ANY railway! :(

Have a look:-
http://daverowland.smugmug.com/Gospo...y-Past-Present[/QUOTE

I see what you mean Dave. It seems madness not to reinstate a rail-link with much of the infrastructure still standing! I just cant understand why investment for the long term future of or railway network seems to be nonexistant in some areas! A bus route? come on am I missing something, what about all the polution and limited passenger numbers on a bus?
Anyway re the other comments re Air travel v Rail; for the short haul (up to 2/3 hours flying) it has to be the train due to all the security issues and having to be at the airport 1 to 2 hours before flight. Most airports are well away from city centres meaning more travel time and cost. The carbon footprint on that alone must be massive! The train - does it need an explanation? not to me it do'nt!!

[/QUOTE] I see what you mean Dave. It seems madness not to reinstate a rail-link with much of the infrastructure still standing! I just cant understand why investment for the long term future of or railway network seems to be nonexistant in some areas! A bus route? come on am I missing something, what about all the polution and limited passenger numbers on a bus?
Anyway re the other comments re Air travel v Rail; for the short haul (up to 2/3 hours flying) it has to be the train due to all the security issues and having to be at the airport 1 to 2 hours before flight. Most airports are well away from city centres meaning more travel time and cost. The carbon footprint on that alone must be massive! The train - does it need an explanation? not to me it do'nt!![/QUOTE]

The trouble in Gosport is that BR leased out some of the land as soon as goods services stopped in 1969, so by 1970/71 there was an estate of 27 houses built across the trackbed at the west end of the terminus, and an industrial estate built across the trackbed a few hundred yards west of that, so there wasn't ever much chance of reinstating the whole line as far as the station, which is a fair way from Gosport town itself - probably why not many passengers used the trains in the first place. However, although the Busway is (allegedly) going to end up at a new interchange at Fareham railway station (useful to me IF the busway gets about half a mile nearer to me), it's not going to make a jot of difference to the massive traffic problems here. Apart from a road west leading to the M27 and Southampton, both of the other roads out of Gosport meet up in Fareham on the A32, and it's far too built up here to do anything about it. Although causing major concerns since the early 1970s, this is what the local government has done to solve the road situation: allow the building of large housing estates and flats, and all spare land or old buildings are converted into flats, soon to include the former airfield at Lee-on-Solent and Haslar Hospital. Gross stupidity doesn't even begin to describe it. :mad::mad:

"The trouble in Gosport is that BR leased out some of the land as soon as goods services stopped in 1969, so by 1970/71 there was an estate of 27 houses built across the trackbed at the west end of the terminus, and an industrial estate built across the trackbed a few hundred yards west of that, so there wasn't ever much chance of reinstating the whole line as far as the station, which is a fair way from Gosport town itself - probably why not many passengers used the trains in the first place."

Dave, We hear of this as happened in so many places! Its just the short sighted view of most local authorities that dont get the bigger picture! Everyone seems to be afraid of the words "Investment for the long term" we all know railways directly dont show profits but that is not why they belong! Its because indirectly they bring so much more to the areas they serve. Only got to look at the EVR to see what benefit the new branch line had done to Wirksworth and its local ecconomy!
Anyway good luck for the future
Regards
Phil

New to this forum. I watched this on youtube, after i was told about it by some freinds. I must say pete waterman, didnt hold back shooting down the nonsense that this nimby was spouting.

There is another video on youtube with him arguing with christian wolmar, who says that the governemnt, is overstating how many passengers would use it, might be true but i suspect as we have see with otehr lines which have been re-opened passenger numbers could be much higher than the governement predicted.

I personally think we need HS2 urgently and i am fed up with some of these nimbys, although perhaps a few do raise some good points.

It is good to see those who have a understanding of the railways such as pete waterman and rails' nigel harris standing up for HS2, i just hope the governemnt shows a backbone and doesnt listen to even some of its own MP's such as our own secetry of state for wales, who in my opinion is useless,

Hi Anthony and welcome to the forum. Nice to hear your views too and for the record I agree with what you say about the need for HS2 being urgent. It is, and all the way up north from Birmingham! Lets do it!!!!
Regards
Phil

Most of the problem is that people seem to think it is just being built for those living in Brimingham & Manchester, when in fact it would mean extra services to Liverpool (in fact i suspect liverpool would get more trains if there was room at lime street for them)

I know it is planned to evenutally get HS2 to Glasgow/Edinburgh i have read some trains could get from Scotland to London in a little as 3 hours or possibly even less than that.

I know the road haulage industry are against HS2, yet Eddie stobart want to run more freight on the west coast mainline, you would think they would support HS2 as it would mean that there would be more freight paths on the west coast mainline.

Well...I have to say chaps, I don't think that HS2 will ever be built. I don't like it, like you.....and Pete, I think that it's a must! But I've been listening to the Parliament Channel HS2 Committee and the NIMBYS have hired clever lawyers etc to fight their case. They are rich, powerful and totally uncaring about the needs of the rest of the country. All they care about is the view from their window......in my book they're tantamount to being traitors to the country they profess to love.

Pete BTW missed a very important point when the NIMBY said: "Look at HS1, it was supposed to carry XXX amount and it's only carrying X amount!"

Mr Nimby, that's probably because it ONLY serves London! Connect it to the rest of the nation and see what happens!.....

I travel in Germany a lot, by car that is, on holiday. For several years we watched as a HS railway was built for the ICE trains, from Garmish-Partenkirchen all the way via Munich - Frankfurt A.M. to at least...Cologne and possibly further.

It was NOT built piecemeal, a little bit at a time....

It was built by men and machinery along the whole route at once! You could watch the work beside the autobahn as you drove along. New track bed, tunnels, bridges, viaducts...stations (like Frankfurt Airport) the whole length at once. Hundreds of miles........not a mere 90 to Birmingham which will take at least a decade and cost a fortune because the NIMBYS are standing in the way of progress and thereby costing the nation a fortune in legal costs and other obstructive measures until it is dropped!

Pete is right....but I fear he is the only man batting.

I think you are right Resolution. Britain has a national habit of only doing something when our backs are against the wall. Look at the second world war when defence spending was repeatably cut until about 1937/8

It will take a massive oil crisis, which from my limited understanding, should kick in at around 2030 before serious money will go into other transport alternatives.

It seems that way. We always manage to take the cheapest option and never quite go the whole hog in anything any government takes on! It would appear that whoever or whatever body is in control they only ever go half way to a solution. That applies to so much this country is involved with!
I wonder if the people who authorized and organized the building of all the infrastucture for the olympics want to reveiw HS2 because that seems to be going without a hitch!!!!
regards
Phil

I tell you what, I'd like to take a bet......

Despite the debt crisis and coming inflation, I'll bet that our stupid government (of whatever flavour) still goes ahead and buys the Trident update, £76 Billion + for rockets that we can never fire 'cos if we did that would be the last thing that we did.

On the other hand, the Germans for a fraction of that price are introducing a new fleet of ICE trains, double decked, air conditioned, and with family rooms on the upper deck for those with children! If my memory serves me right I think they are buying 38 complete 9 car trains.

A visit to the DB website may give more information if it's still up on the site.

I am not taking on that bet!!

Yes Belmont Rd, I despair of this country I really do. It's not that we don't have the money or even the skills, it's just that our governments priorities are wrong.