Pendolino is not fit for purpose.
 

Went to Liverpool standard class on pendolino, felt more cramped than a class 375/9 with 2+3 seating, next time I go Liverpool I will go as far as is possible on a LM train and get whatever else to Liverpool.

I agree I have to travel on one next week. I managed to get a 1st class ticket so at least I will be cramped in some style.

I agree, and the voyagers are even wose. I always try to travel Transpenine on the 185s they are much better for seating. Mr Branson did things on the cheap, so we are now left with a legacy for the next 30 years.

The problem is that these trains are not owned or designed by the TOC's they're all leased and designed by faceless ones somewhere abroad

Aircraft on wheels, which was the brain child of Branson I believe. He didn't want anyone with railway experience working on the interior plans.

Built to a budget sums all of this "New" rolling stock, and a tight one at that.
When fibreglass internal carriage modules are subbed out to Bahrain boat builders to meet budgets I think we can begin to understand where some of the problems originate.

The Pendos do at least reduce the misery to just over a couple of hours or so.

The irony, though, is that despite their cramped-ness, they contain a lot of wasted space. For a start, there are the huge disabled-accessible toilets. This may be a legal requirement, but does there need to be so many of them? In all my years travelling on the Pendos, I have never once seen anyone in a wheelchair using them. Because of this,there is also a curious little unused lobby area at the entrance to each carriage with a couple of fold-up seats.

And do we really need to create such cramped conditions for all passengers in the name of maximising the number of seats so that everyone can in theory sit down on the busiest trains? Wouldn't it be better to seat most passengers on most trains in some comfort and just accept that a few people will have to stand for half an hour or so on the busiest trains on Friday evenings? Or would that upset the health & safety wonks?

If you take an economy class aircraft cabin as your model, no wonder you've got problems.

I am not sure of minimum number of W/c access seats but the the number 2 per tain springs to mind as that is all there is on an HST as they had a huge chop job to fit those in when they had to add them due to the vestibules being too small for W/c access generallly

Isn't it a shame the goverment and TOC's dont listen to us railway people not their wallets......

Did u travel on one of the old pendolino or the new alstorm one???

I took my Daughter and Husband on a steam hauled trip with dinner on the GCR last year and they commented on how great the seating was compared to the modern, cramped, airline style, coaches of today. If only we could go back to those good old days!!!
Regards
Phil

I travelled up from Kent the other day on a South Eastern service (to watch Crystal Palace play Cardiff in the Carling Cup, if you must know) and was appalled at how uncomfortable the train was. Thank heaven I no longer have to commute to London every day. Looking back to when I was a Tonbridge–London regular even the old VEP units were OK, and the CEPs were positively luxurious.

When I do sit in an economy class aircraft seat, I always notice how much more room there is for my legs than in the train which carried me to the airport. The aircraft is positively comfortable compared to the train. When you go to a heritage railway and see an old Mk 1 carriage, it's difficult to remember that train travel used to me so civilised.

London Midland go to Liverpool from Birmingham NS. Two trains per hour during the day.

I have to be fair to Virgin. I travelled on a Pendolino yesterday first class to Carlisle.

The seats in this line up with the windows and the service was excellent free tea coffee and a hot meal.

If you are an oldie like me and have railcard its well worth checking the deals, I am coming back on East Coastfrom Edinburgh to London 1st class for £47.50