No more fatalities - ever
 

Now don't shoot the messenger, I'm only telling it like it is.

Some Passenger train drivers in the UK have been advised that following a successful trial in New Zealand, they must not use the expression 'Fatality' when telling the public about people hit by trains.

The Policy Deciders at RSSB have decided that the expression now is "Person struck by train".

And the reason for this is that many people who attempt suicide on the Railway are horribly maimed or dismembered rather than killed.

In New Zealand they found that educating the public to the attempted suicide statistics has significantly reduced the occurance of them.

So when you find your train cancelled due to a 'person struck by a train' - ya heard about it here first ! ;)

Im sorry i can't quite agree with you on that one Flying Pig.
Yes Person hit by train does sound better than a fatality but not very many people walk away from being hit by a train very very few.

ccmmick.

Well these aren't my statistics. Taken nationally, (ie including the Tube) there are a large number of people who do survive suicide attempts, partly because they get scared at the last moment. It must be pretty terrifying when a train is nearly on top of you.

If somone steps in front of an HST doing 125 mph they'll probably be a gonner, but you'd be surprised at the number of people who mess it up.

I once had a bloke jump in front of my train as I was coming to a stand - and he just shook his head at me like I was some sort of an idiot and walked off. Presumably he didn't realise I was a stopper. :confused:

A mate of mine was doing 70 in south London when he saw a womran running away from him in the 4 foot. It turned out that she'd changed her mind at the last moment. She tried to jump clear but lost an arm and a leg.

Alot of people do survive, but it's a life changing experience for all concerned.

I don't understand why people don't use an 'easier' method, but then I guess you've got to be pretty upset to get to that stage.

FP

Yes you are right people do bottle it at the last minute and their mind be in one hell of a state i dont think i could do it not that i want to.
But i still say a person on the track hit by a train 125mph or 20mph the chances of you walking away are very slim.

ccmmick.

I agree with ccmmick. If you get hit by a train you are in serious trouble. Those that "survive" probably get out the way before bing struck and therefore have not survived being hit by a train. Don`t think it matters what jargon they use myself.
Richard

Is this your own personal experience, or are you just guessing? Perhaps I should give a little more detail. If you have a squeamish or sensitive disposition then don't read any further.

Certainly if you are in the four foot and are hit by the main bulk of the train (couplers, buffers, body) then you will receive an enormous amount of kinetic energy. This is highly likely to be fatal.

Sometimes people aren't in the middle or don't get hit squarely, so are side-swiped by the peripheral equipment such as shoe gear or sole bar plates. This is usually fatal but people have survived despite considerable physical trauma.

However in many cases people jump into the path of a train. It's hellishly difficult to estimate the exact time to launch yourself when the train is thundering at you, and people often get it wrong. If they go early they land on the ground and parts of them get run over by the train, which often results in amputation. Sometimes they bleed to death before medical help reaches them, and sometimes they survive.

In any case, it sadly isn't the 'quick end' that they had anticipated.

So the purpose of dropping the word Fatality when advising the public, is to end the myth that the train always kills you.

You may think it's petty but surely it's worth a try - for everybody's sake ?

I was in Newton Abbot not all that long ago on my pnb an hst ran in and a young woman jumped in front of it but like you say Flying Pig she got it all wrong they pulled the train apart and she was taken off to hospital with only cuts and bruises she landed right in the four foot as the train went over her.
I dont know if she tried it again or not, lucky or not so lucky for her.

ccmmick.

Thanks for the description of casualty kinematics and trauma. 32 years in the fire service means to me that casualties in which life is extinct are fatalities and no amount of glossing changes that. In this country we are already doing something in that we have passenger incidents and a few years ago after a serious train crash there was public objection to the use of the word incident.
In reality if a person who's mind is unbalanced enough to commit suicide the use of nice words won't make a lot of difference they will have a go somehow. Still there is no harm in trying to change things.

Richard

Well said Richard
If someone is in that state of mind and have had enough with their life then they will do it one way or another it is very sad and no amount of fancy words will ever change it as for people getting onto the railways no amount of work done will ever stop them.
Sorry to say it but a suicide is a fact of life very sad.

ccmmick.

We seem to have an obsession nowadays with not saying things as they are and obsessive political correctness. Good manners says we shouldn't be offensive but sadly some people take offence to absolutely anything and we are forced to pander to this ridiculousness.

As to the "Person struck by train" perhaps a little more information would actually better help put the desired message across, for example "Person jumped in front of train in another botched suicide attempt and yet again has survived but been horribly maimed." Stark, but might just put a few people off.

The thing that really gets me however is that the selfish perpetrator has absolutely no consideration for the effect it has on others not least the poor driver.

I totally agree. However what we need to do is persuade them that the railway isn't the answer

The purpose of the wording change is to eduacte the public to this....although it's so lame the public won't even understand it IMHO.

Whereas...
really makes the point.

Perhaps we should write something on the vinyls on the outside of trains ?

DON'T JUMP UNDER THIS TRAIN - IT WON'T KILL YOU BUT IT WILL PROBABLY CUT OFF YOUR LEGS. RING THE SAMARITANS INSTEAD.

If only, :rolleyes: .

Some sort of advertising campaign along the lines of those "Don't run the risk" or "Don't drink and drive" ads would probably solve the problem quite effectively, if it explained that jumping under the train mames rather than kills.

sUUMATT ON tv SDOON i THINK !

Ok guys, Having worked on the tracks for the last 11 an a bit years i've seen a few near misses with trains an track staff. An i am now the closest near miss that Network Rail have ever had at 1.5sec's with me getting out the way an the train going by me. An that happened just outside Welshpool towards Shrewsbury, i was marking up ready for tamping just stepped into the 4' to mark up the zero cant mark an the train was there horn blowing an me Diving out to the cess for my life. So when it comes to people jumping in front of trains sometimes its not the public its staff who know the rules an get complacent.

I agree with you totally on that one the track is a very dangerous place to be and you have to be on the ball all the time.

You be very careful out there Phill.
ccmmick.

I will try ccmmick, i remember when i was about 5 or 6 years old me an my Grandad were going for a walk down by the river here where i live now, an before we got to the field or left the pub where i grew up we heard a train blowing its horn continuously but we did'nt know why. When we went for our walk we found out a deaf an blind girl or should i say partially sighted had walked onto the railway at a farm crossing stood in the 4' an never heard or saw the train comming. All i saw was the girl covered over with her cape an i can still see her now even more so if i go walking by that xing.

Yes Phill like you i have heard about lots of deaths on the railway thank god i never had one.
I think the worst would be kids or workmen on the track, if someone wants to lie down and call it a day i honestly dont think i would bother me that much and please dont take that the wrong way i think you all know what i mean.

ccmmick.

The Railway is a Dangerous place but at the end of the Day it is all down to plain old common sense affterall if you saw / had electric wires hanging out of the wall you would't touch them without switching off the power first or using an electrical testing device.

Reference for pc terminology change
 

Hi, I am a psychology student researching for some coursework i am writing at the moment (titled: 'how to reduce deaths on railways'), and I was wondering if you had any links/ general information source references for where you found out about the terminology preference change? Iv been looking around the RSSB website etc but dont seem to have found any information regarding changing the prefered terminology.
Thanks,
Duncan

Railway suicides documentary - have your say
 

Lambent Productions, a company specialising in educational and factual documentaries, are producing a documentary about railway suicides. Our company has previously won an award for our work on mental health programming.

The only way to begin to reduce suicide is to reduce the stigma of talking about it and the media can give people that platform to do so. However, suicide is a subject that is rarely spoken about satisfactorily by the media. We hope to change that in our own small way and open up the debate in an informed and respectful way.

In order to do this we are in contact with a number of bereavement organistaions such as the Samaritans, Survivors of Bereavement by Suicide (SOBS), Cruse Bereavement and Papyrus (Prevention of young suicide) and will be speaking to the families of those who have lost loved ones to rail suicide. We strongly believe that a voice also needs to be given to drivers who are affected by this and we would like to speak to anyone who is willing to share their story.

We have been in touch with the RMT who have been supportive of what we are trying to achieve and are looking into finding us drivers who can contribute to a discussion about suicide on the tubes/trains. We feel it is essential to hear this voice as the effects of a suicide do not stop with the bereaved family and friends, as you well know. The mental health of a driver after someone has jumped in front of their train is of great importance to this discussion also.

We are looking for drivers of any age, any background, retired or active it doesn’t matter, we are just very keen to talk to anyone who has been affected by a suicide on the lines. All contact will be treated in complete confidence and there is no pressure to be involved in the filming. We just want to speak to you. This film is important and we would much rather make it with your support rather than without it.

Please contact Emily on [email protected] or 01273 648 380.

Still lots of work to do on educating people who are not suicidal, but just plain stupid. A driver at a previous depot once had a very close call, running through a minor station & following level crossing at approx 85mph, a guy wearing headphones leapt the barriers and casually strolled across the line. Clearly his volume was well and truly pumped, and the driver blasting the horn had little initial effect - until it suddenly became apparent that a 158 was about to vapourise him and he bolted like a scalded pooch! It might be mildly amusing in this context, but so nearly not funny at all. Same goes for the fishermen I once saw casually strolling up the cess as we passed in the opposite direction, or the idiot trying to catch rabbits on the embankment. An everyday occurence all around the network of course.

As far as the issue of suicidal selfishness goes, I guess if you're at that stage of proceedings you probably just don't consider it, or just don't give a damn. Would it be a fair assesment to say that a lot of people who choose to end it have a pretty low opinion of the world, so maybe they just don't care a great deal for the effect on others of them killing themselves? If you think of Ufton Nervet, a guy derails an HST causing deaths among innocent people, or even Moorgate - if that was the cause, of course - perhaps it just isn't a consideration once you've crossed that line?