Hi Pete,
I assume that you are still going to go with colour light signals in readiness for overhead electrification (have you allowed enough clearance under your bridges?:)) If so, a good starting point would be to determine the length of the longest train you intend running on Makerfield and use this to determine the distance between signals on each of your main tracks. I would say that the signals should be no closer together than 1.5 train lengths but you can obviously make that distance greater if space permits. On the slow(platform) lines I would suggest starting with a signal at the platform ends and working from there. It doesn't really matter where you start to position your signals on the fast lines as there are no visible connections that need signals to protect them. It would just be a case of placing the signals in the most pleasing positions subject to maintaining a suitable distance between them. When we first touched on this subject I suggested possibly having a signal with route indicator controlling entry to the bay platform but I don't think you will need that now as you can imagine that it is just out of sight on the other side of the scenic break bridge. In reality there would also probably be a crossover from one slow line to the other to enable the train from the bay platform to regain it's proper track when departing and that too could be located out of sight on the other side of the bridge.
Just a few suggestions to start the ball rolling.

Thanks John, I really appreciate your taking the time to help with this. I was thinking the same thing, ie to start with the signals on the platform ends, and yes I am intending to use colour light signals. Would these just be 3 aspect signals to indicate a clear route ahead? To be honest I haven't even determined which are the up/down lines - it depends in which directions trains run best, there's a particularly troublesome set of points on the inner circuit which is OK as a trailing point but not facing, causes derailments for some reason, so I guess that determines it's the down line, although it really should be up, just because the real location this fictional layout is based on is lodged so firmly in my head, if that makes any sense.... thought not. :)

http://www.expressmodels.co.uk/acata...s_Signals.html

It's the Wigan show next week so I'll probably pick some up from there. The next challenge will be wiring them... not my strong point. Thanks again, I'll report back.

Thats a really cool layout, the buildings and the bridge you built look good actually.

You've well and truly confused me with your point problem and it's effect on the UP and DOWN line Pete :)
On the West Coast Mainline in the "Makerfield" area the UP lines are the ones which head towards Warrington (and London) and obviously the DOWN lines are the ones going north towards Preston.
As I have already been reprimanded once by the forum Admin for editing another member's picture I have decided to live dangerously and have taken the liberty of superimposing the main signal (4-aspect) positions on a copy of your trackplan. I have also marked the normal running directions for each track but I didn't label them UP and DOWN because although I am assuming that "Makerfield" is south of Wigan I couldn't be sure from reading your thread which way the bay platform faces (north or south). In one of your photos you show some punks waiting to board the stopping service to Liverpool but I didn't know if that was the DMU at Platform 1 or another train that was about to arrive at Platform 2.
Although the plan shows (in my opinion) all the main signals that are needed you will also have to consider how you intend to operate the diesel depot. If locos are to leave the depot and then reverse back through Platform 2 this line will also need to become bi-directional. Movements to/from the diesel depot can be controlled by small subsidiary signals which might be something you could consider at a later date. Another possible problem is the positioning of the signals between the tracks......will you have enough space, allowing for rolling-stock overhang or will they need to be raised up on overhead gantries? Hope this helps.
Attachment 521

P.S. I forgot to say. I spaced the signals on the assumption that the length of your longest train would be determined by the length of your storage sidings. If your plan is not to scale then you might need to reposition some of them.

John that's brilliant, thanks so much for that.
You've got the running directions exactly right as built. The obvious solution for me would be to replace or modify that dodgy point, then operation would be exactly as your diagram. I'm pretty sure I'll just have dummy signals for the diesel depot though, as it's pretty much a static scenic feature, I tend to just like observing trains making circuits. The next layout though.......

re the positioing, I think the ones on the down platforms will need to be on gantries, which in itself will look pretty good I think, so as long as there's room... I EALLY should have thought about signals earlier. schoolboy error!

I'll print that plan out & take it with me, get some advice on best products from the bods at the show next week. Thanks again!

*edit* the bay platform faces south by the way.

In that case the storage sidings south of Makerfield actually represent Golborne Junction.......and all points south, east and west.;)

Yeah! Good, ain't it? :)

progress on the north end....
 

Gah, typed this once & forgot to post it...

Ah well. I filled some of the space I was bellyaching over, with a garage building. I wanted to do a decent job of the interior as it faces outwards & is at the front of the layout. So I put lamps on the inside & built some lifting ramps & glued cars on top of them. All a bit freelance but I'm happy with it. I think this building is the one I've enjoyed doing the most.

Now, the other side of the footbridge path... a field I think....

(Photos in the model railways gallery:)

http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...5&limit=recent
http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...4&limit=recent
http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...3&limit=recent

oo, forgot to mention - I've started on the signals! Only the bay platform so far, & it took an evening to wire up... I will post pics when I've done some more. I'm only concerned with the station platforms, can't afford to spend too much on signalling, it doesn't come cheap.

Another fine job Pete. I'm sure you can think of plenty more things to put in the workshops. Look forward to seeing your signals.

That garage looks very cool mate, very detailed indeed.

Cheers folks! :)

Thats a lovely job. Makes me feel ashamed I have not done anything serious to mine for a while.
My grandson wants to get involved. He wants a scrapyard where I was going to put a coal yard. Bet he wins!
Paul

Pete, opening up fine here, Lp, try it again.
Great layout, thanks for sharing.
Brian

If anybody wants to get a really good overview into how modern signalling works, you can download the current Module S1 of the rulebook at this link...http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book...%20Iss%201.pdf It's in PDF format, and although it applies to 2009, it's not changed that much from the days of 'Blue'.

As a very rough rule of thumb to how signalling is done on the 'big' railway, distance between signals is determined by the running speed of the line, and the number of aspects is determined by how busy the traffic is.

In the UK there are basically two types of signal;
1) Controlled - which you find at junctions or anywhere that one train's movement may conflict with another's. Signallers make the decisions (known as 'Regulating' trains).
2) Automatic - When a train is chugging merry along a line with no junctions, the only concern is that it doesn't overrun the one in front it. Automatic signals, as you might guess, are worked by the passage of trains themselves.

Most mainline signals have a plate below the lamp assembly showing which type they are.

So if you're conveying the idea of a high speed mainline, Four aspect signals spaced well apart are required. Conversely, if you're modelling a quiet branchline, then Two aspect would suffice.

And of course, you can change the number of aspects throughout a line. If the linespeed/traffic increases or decreases you can vary it as it goes along accordingly. For example a line branching off a mainline might have 4 aspects to begin with, but as it gets slower it goes to 3 aspect, until it's on 2 aspect at the back of beyond. Additionally any signal leading into a bay platform ony needs to be 2 aspect, since only a single yellow can precede a set of buffer stops (which must display a red light).

And although you said that you don't want to signal your sidings, you could have fixed position light signals for authenticity.

This is a handy link here..http://www.signalbox.org/signals/semaphore4.htm

You could use either mechanical discs or colour lights. It wouldn't be too hard to make them out of LEDs (in fact if you're a bit reticent I might even put my money where my mouth is and have a try at making a set of LEDs for you. It's a challenge I keep meaning to have a go at).

Anyway, I hope this is some help to you.

signals - finally!
 

Thanks to my being banned from Saturday shopping trips (no real hardship to me) due to alleged bad behaviour on a previous trip, I've been able to address the signalling situation. A guy on ebay was selling sets of homemade signals, 2 and 3 aspect, I emailed him & asked if he could make four aspect, which he did, at a very reasonable price (£4 each including resistors & a really easy to follow wiring * switching diagram. I kitbashed a couple of gantries from Ratio kits (these are utterly freelance, but if anyone would like to tell me how to improve them I'd be grateful.

So now I have four aspect switchable signals on all four lines through the station, & a 2-aspect starter on the bay platform. I had to hack chunks out of the bridge though to thread the wires through, all repaired now & looking pretty good. Many thanks to the ebay guy, if anyone wants his details I'll be happy to pass them on. & thanks to all of you for your suggestions and advice.

(you wouldn't want to see the wiring behind the control panels though - luckily it's all hidden.)

http://www.clockworkcommunications.c...nals.../24.JPG
http://www.clockworkcommunications.c...nals.../40.JPG
http://www.clockworkcommunications.c....../gantry.JPG
http://www.clockworkcommunications.c...ls.../peak.JPG
http://www.clockworkcommunications.c...s.../south.JPG

Oh, and it looks like that large building has earned a reprieve:

http://www.clockworkcommunications.c..../building.JPG
http://www.clockworkcommunications.c.../building2.JPG

The effect looks really good, Pete.
Sorry to be picky because you have obviously put a lot of work into them but are the signal aspects in the correct order? (yellow, green, yellow, red from top to bottom) and the signal in one of your photos is also showing yellow and red at the same time which shouldn't happen.(or have you taken the photo in the split second that the red changed to single yellow? :))
I would also suggest that the signal controlling the exit from the bay platform should be much lower so as to be in the driver's line of sight.

Really? bugger.
That's embarassing.
Oh well, they're staying as they are for now. I was going to ask what the correct combinations are, ie green + yellow etc, i guess it's just either red, yellow, two yellow or green? I can switch between these but may have to rethink the wiring for double yellow.

As you can see, I know very little about real signalling. Should have done more research, I just assumed that the signals as built were correct.
Ho hum.

Maybe I'll redo them in a few months, I'm all signalled out for now though.

These things are sent to try us Pete :) I still can't make head nor tail of the French wiring instructions that came with some Japanese made Swiss signals that I bought for my layout.:D

Ha! Drives you mad doesn't it? We had our combi boiler replaced a few weeks ago. It features an analogue timer clock that reads anti-clockwise. If there's one thing that should NOT read anti-clockwise, it's a clock...

resignalling project is completed with lights in the right order. However I have now decided I need a proper gantry, so am going to buy & build one of the traintronics ones. I will post pics eventually.......

Apologies - the only pic I can find is on another forum (scroll down)
It is available in 00 by the way. I've checked.


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&p=494103

Nice looking gantry Pete. Should have plenty of clearance for when the Weaver Junction - Glasgow electrification reaches Makerfield;)

Looks great Pete.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

I didn't buy that gantry. I decided I didn't like the girder-style supports so I kitbashed a Dapol steam era gantry and a dapol modern gantry into a new beast, added handrails & ladders and somehow managed to get it on the layout and wired in without it falling to bits. Pics in the gallery:

I'm going to try & convince myself that the gantry saga is now over......
although - should the signals have protective mesh cages? damn.......

http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...=12792&cat=508

http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...1&limit=recent

Looks good, thanks for posting the photos. Its nice to see an era being modelled that I can't do ("my" line closed in 1962). Your ballast looks to be a better colour than the stuff on my layout (which is too "new") but I hope to rectify that this autumn and winter.

Looks great Pete, all the best.

48111

Like the set-up.I used to go to Goldborne to train spot when I lived in Abram.

What year would that be Mickey?

:) 1960-1970. used to go into the field at Dover locks and over towards Bamfurlong
or walk to Goldborne, and sit on the banking near the road bridge (on the Bryn road).

Ha I would have occupied that same banking about 1977-79. Do you have any memories or better still pictures, of the station & colliery at Golborne? The station was gone before i moved here t the age of 7 in 1970, I vaguely remember the colliery from my youth.

Sorry, I don't have anything, but I'll ask around. I worked on the water treatment works behind the school around the time you are talking about, and I think the colliery was closed by then. Bickershaw, just down the road was still hanging on.
Mickey

Pics
 

I just had a look back at this thread from years ago, noticed that a lot of the links to pictures are dead.
If you are interested, they can mostly be found on these pages:

http://www.railwayforum.net/gallery/...&imageuser=245

The layout still exists by the way. For now..........

Golborne colliery closed in 1992. The site is now a housing estate.

Actually Tony, it's a business park. About half a mile from my house ;-)

Golborne Colliery
 

Closed in 1989.10 years after the 1979 disaster.{wiki}
Stuart

Hi Meurglys,
I had forgotten about the business park, when I left Golborne there were only about half a dozen "start up" businesses there. The majority of the colliery land is covered by housing. I knew many ex miners who all said that they were made redundant in 1992. For the last years of existence no coal was brought to the surface at Golborne, it was transported underground to Bickershaw in Leigh about 3 miles away. I lived in Golborne for 14 years up to 2000 (in Halewood Avenue).

Well, Makerfield has now been officially dismantled. I wasn't happy with aspects of it so I decided to build something new. It was a complete pain getting the track up due to the glued ballast (I ended up using a steam cleaner, holding it against the ballast until it dissolved the glue, then carefully getting under the track with a narrow wallpaper knife.
I have to admit to being sad about ripping everything up. I actually couldn't get the station platforms up as they were chipboard based, seemingly spot welded to the baseboards. So I had to remove the whole front of the layout and replace with new boards.
So now I have a massive workbench until I start to build the new layout! I will start a new thread soon. The layout will be called "Hope Springs" as I like the name, I have a track plan and a massive diesel shed to accomodate (see "Hope Springs TMD" thread).
Quite looking forward to it now.... :-)

Also I think I will create a new profile with my actual name (Pete) - that meurglysIII thing is annoying me now.

ShepleyFlyer - a lot of the links are expired unfortunately. Photos are on flickr though.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/614182...7631182168086/

This layout is now pushing up daisies. RIP.
Pete