Well I dont usualy read every reply to threads but I got so interested in this one that I did just that, brings back memories of when I first started my N Gauge layout March 2006 also on a door.

It has now grown to 10ft x 2ft9ins, no regrets starting off on a door, I can relate to many things written on this thread, one I used Peco code 80 track, two I decided not to model anyplace in particular, the name of the layout has been changed three times mainly because as the railway has evolved previous names didnt suit, now settled on "Redland Valley Railway" final choice.

Although this is my fifth model railway it is my first attempt at building scenery, previous layouts just had a few buildings on them and I concentrated on the running of trains, I must say that the pleasure of building scenery has to be one of the most rewarding experiences I have had with any type of modelling.

I am far from experienced in layout building but thanks to the internet and books I have fumbled my way through, I know in my heart that I am not an arty type person and have resided to the fact that I will not be able to create the super detail seen on some layouts, that to me is not a problem, as someone said its your layout and you can do what you like with it.

I recently moved the layout into an insulated back yard shed, purpose built to house my layout, best thing I ever did certainly put a smile on the Wifes face.

Looking forward to reading about further developments on your layout certainly made for good reading.

Regards
David.

David,
To move out into a purpose built 'shed' is luxury indeed, I had to move out into the garden.
John

The underlay arrived yesterday and today I bought some trackpins to see how secure the track would be without glue. It works!!!! And no drilling needed. I glued some polystyrene tiles to the baseboard some time back, hoping that they would act like foam underlay (they don't...serves me right for being a cheapskate!) and the pins go very nicely into it. Maybe a dab of PVA here and there if I think it's needed, but the layout is a semi permanent fixture anyway. If it ever is moved (house move etc), then I'll probably take the track off, but for the time being the track should be secure enough.

So, fingers crossed, I'm hoping to finally lay all of the trackwork this weekend. :)

Pleased you enjoyed it David.

Trev,
You will have to put the bathroom door back on it's hinges if you ever want to sell the house. People like a door when having a bath, one without a load of N gauge track all over it. Glad to hear you are able to make a start on you layout, you have had to put it on hold for long enough. Post a photo of the track or a drawing of the plans. (yes I know it will change a number of times before you are happy with it )
Good luck mate
Syd

C'mon now Syd...I'm not that bad. :D No, the door in question used to be the door to the kids bedroom. It fell off around three years ago so I put a sliding door in. That fell off around six months later, so the girls took matters into their own hands and rigged a curtain up. They're happy about it, so it'll do for me! Of course, it doesn't stop them taking the mickey and asking "Dad, can we have our bedroom door back, y'know, the one that you're sticking railway track to?" Bloody kids. :D

Can't post a photo at the moment, as I don't have a camera at present, but I will provide a full description of the trackplan as soon as it is finalised.

My eyes are burning!!!!

Trying to see the tiny little holes in the track against the foam ballast is killing my eyesight! But I'm getting there, slowly. So far I've done the sidings and the passing loop. I've got the loco shed and the main line to do and I'm then done. Just hope it all works right! I haven't pushed the pins right in, I've left a tiny amount proud of the sleeper, hopefully this will let the track float slightly. I hope!!! :D

Trev,
How's the tracklaying coming along or have you been too busy?
I've been doing some ballasting over the weekend. Fiddly job but I think it's worth it in the long run. Must remember to flick the points before the PVA glues them up.:D

Slowly but surely John. Dunno if it's me, but my sleepers do not like to sit in the slots on the underlay!! I'm not even going to attempt to do amy further ballasting, the foam will do for me.

My eyes are slowly getting used to seeing the holes for the pins. :eek:

I don't think it's you Trev. It's a long time since I last used Peco underlay but I seem to remember it was sometimes a bit tricky to bed the sleepers into the foam. You can't beat a bit of careful jiggling.:)

I did another couple of sidings tonight.

I'm wondering what to do about the gap in the foam underlay between adjacent tracks as I don't want to mess about with ballast on the tracks themselves. Is it possible to get some scatter which gets anywhere near the colour of the track underlay?

Trev, I am sure that you will be able to get some scatter to match the colour of the underlay. When I last used the Peco underlay I filled in the gaps between running lines with ballast from the "Woodland Scenics" range.
If the gaps are between sidings you might not even need to match the colour because in reality it would probably be cinders.
If you have wide gaps between tracks have you considered using strips of the actual underlay, face-side down and secured with PVA?

I've mentioned before how disappointed I have been with N gauge. It's now reached a point where I am afraid I have had to rethink what I'm going to do with the fairly large (for me) investment I have made so far.

I've completed laying the track for my layout, and have spent quite a bit of time test running the locos that I have. And it's fair to say that 'disaster' is the only way that things can be described. The Class 73 is probably the worst offender. It constantly derails at one particular set of points, even though everything else goes through quite happily. I've tried tweaking the point as Swiss John described, but the derailment doesn't seem to be happening there. The loco is okay until the trailing bogie meets the plastic frog (this is in the facing direction, btw) and it then tries to go the other way. On two of the sidings, power does not seem to get through to the locos at all, and at least one of the self isolating points in the passing loop doesn't self isolate, which is a bit of a problem for a passing loop!

I'm loath to spend even more money on replacement points, so I have abandoned all hope of doing the model that I wanted, which was to be the yard and engine shed area of a preserved railway. Instead I'm going to simply lay a double track circuit in order to portray a section of main line running between a tunnel and a bridge. In order to minimise the prospect of derailments, this plan will include the minimal number of points.....for 'minimal', read 'none at all'! So it will basically be a landscape with a railway running through it. Locos and rolling stock swapped by hand

On the other hand, at least I am able to report that my locos work okay as long as they don't get near any points. The new Peak is an excellent runner, even at very low speeds, the Class 73 is smooth and responsive, and even the Class 33, now that it has been run in, is becoming more reliable.

A name for the layout? How about 'Trev's Folly Cutting'? :D

maybe a stupid question for n guage, but have you tried adding weight to your models? i don't suppose there's much room to do this in the bodies, but it has helped enormously with my 00 stock. One advantage of the larger scale is you can always add liquid lead to your wagons & locos.

I also removed the plastic catch rails from a couple of troublesome points (older, small radius Peco ones in the storage sidings).

Hope you resolve this, I know how much work goes in to building layouts, seems a shame to have to scrap it.

Trev,
I know that feeling. It was a level crossing problem for me. My Jinty and 14xx both jumped the rails at the level crossing, yet I could not find out why. I got the big mag glass with a light on it and checked the crossing from both sides but could find nothing wrong. I ran all 14 of my locos over the crossing without a hitch. Then I ran them the other way and the 2 of them jumped the rails again, even at fairly low speeds. I took the crossing back to the shop I got it from and asked them to see if they could find a fault. The guy just said "it happens", and gave me a new crossing. Problem solved.
I know that you are not in the same boat as I am and that you have had to go with care with your model, but you have invested a lot of money so far, so please do not give up to soon. Let me know what points they are and I will see if any of my spare could help you.
Syd

Hi Trev,
I can't believe that you are experiencing so many problems. You have had more setbacks in the short period that you have been modelling N-scale than I have had in 25 years.:(
I know you say that the Class 73 is a good runner generally but it sounds to me that one or more of its wheels are "out of gauge" and that's why it cannot track through the points properly. A loco of this size and wheel arrangement should be absolutely perfect on all types of points, that is assuming that your points aren't damaged.
The problem of power not reaching the sidings could be a number of things. Are your power feeders in the right position relative to the points? If they are then the problem is likely to be a poor contact between the point blade and the stock rail. You can test for this by a bit of gentle prodding with a small screwdriver with the power on. The electrical contact can usually be restored by cleaning between the blade and stock rail with a cottonbud soaked in alcohol (not Newcastle Brown:D ) Also slightly bending the tip of the blade (as previously) tends to give better electrical contact. I would be surprised if you are having contact problems because these only usually arise after plenty of use when the track starts to get dirty unless, of course, you have somehow managed to damage the points when installing them. Do the points still have a good positive spring action? There is also the possibility that the rail-joiners are not making a good contact. Again you can test the joiners by prodding the rail gap with a small screwdriver with the power on to see if your loco moves. If you assembled and dismantled the track several times before finally attaching it to your board the joiners might have become slack. They might need a gentle squeeze with some small pliers.
I can't come up with any suggestions for the problems you are having with points not isolating.:confused: Assuming your electrical feeder connections are correct it is impossible for Peco Setrack points not to isolate. There is a physical gap of about 2mm to stop the current flowing!! If I remember correctly there are two wires beneath the point separated by an insulation sleeve but even if this insulation had failed it would result in a short circuit rather than stopping the points from isolating.
I assume you are using Peco points because some of the foreign makes (e.g. Minitrix) have small wire links that have to be removed to make them into self-isolating points.:)
I really hope that you can get to grips with these problems Trev because I think you will soon get bored with the hobby if you have to resort to a simple loop with no points.

I feel like adding weight to it alright.....and then dropping the bloody lot over the Humber Bridge. :mad:

Just been having another look at things, and the passing loop still does not isolate. Or rather, one side of it does isolate when the points are set against it, but not the other.

One of the sidings which yesterday did not get power through now does, but to compensate for this, one which did work properly yesterday, now doesn't.

The Class 73 still derails its trailing bogie over one particular point, and it's always the trailing bogie, no matter which end of the loco is leading. If the loco is turned around and ran through the points, the bogie which previously derailed will then go through whereas the the other one (now being the trailing bogie) will of course derail. :(

I've had railway models for around 25 years (always OO) and ran trains around temporary set ups on the floor and on the table, and I've never had anything like the problems I've had with N. I left a temporary track formation and rolling stock on my bedroom floor for a month once when I lived at my parents house, and it all still ran perfectly despite dust, the occassional attentions of the family dog and me rolling in at 3am on a Sunday morning!

I know that the 'railway in the landscape' idea sounds dull, but it's the only way that I can think of to derive some pleasure from the investment that I've already made. I'm certainly not going to throw any more cash at it with regard to track. At least I'll be able to try out some scenic techniques for when I can gain some space for the OO stock that I have.

Really beginning to regret my N adventure now.

With respect Trev, If you are using Peco Setrack points this situation is impossible. Could you have accidentally attached a power supply between the two sets of points as this would give rise to the situation you describe?
Once again, assuming your power feeders are in the correct places, this has to be poor connections. A small screwdriver and a short piece of wire as a jump-lead should soon find the fault.
Unless the points are damaged I still think the Class 73's wheels are out of gauge.
You certainly can't treat N-scale in this way but in the right environment and with careful handling you can get it to be very nearly 100% reliable. From what other modellers say 00/H0 isn't without its problems.
Positive thinking Trev.

I can't quite believe it myself John, but it happens! There is only one power lead on the entire layout, and that is outside of the loop.

here is a diagram.
\ is a right hand point and / a left.

----------------main line----------------------------------------------
a\-----b\------------loop---------------------------/c
-----------siding-------------------------

When points 'a' and 'c' are switched for 'loop', then 'main line' is isolated. Point 'b' seems to energise both the loop and the siding even if it's just set for the siding. I first noticed it when I was trying to bring a loco out of the siding while leaving a loco standing in the loop. Point 'b' seems to be the errant one, but I won't know for sure until I detach it from 'a' and test it on its own.

I ran the 73 through the point very slowly earlier this evening, and as far as I can work out the problem happens as soon as the trailing bogie (and it's always the trailing bogie, irrespective of whichever end of the loco is leading) reaches the plastic dead frog. I've tried shaving the height of the frog very gradually with a craft blade, but so far its made no difference.

Model railways a relaxing hobby? Ha!! I think I'll take up lion taming! :D

I agree, Point "b" is the one at fault. In fact it appears to have more than one fault. The jumper wires that carry the power across the plastic frog beneath the point appear to be touching. This would normally result in a short circuit but it isn't happening in this case because the point blade/s are not making proper contact with the stock rails either. When you were trying to drive the loco out of the siding with another parked in the loop this is what I think was happening. You set the points in the direction of the siding but the blade did not make proper contact so the current passed down the stock rail and "through" the loco in the loop. It then returned back down the other rail to the points. The poor blade connection stopped it causing a short-circuit but the touching wires (underneath the point) allowed it to travel into the siding and "through" that loco before returing back down the other rail. Both locos have a flow of current through them (in series) and both will therefore try to move. (The same thing can happen with Electrofrog points if the blades aren't making contact properly.)

Very risky Trev. Altering the point to suit the 73 might ruin it for other locos.

I spent this afternoon testing each point for its isolating properties, and have discarded four. The Class 73 has been run through each point in every possible direction, and apart from the one it had trouble with previously, has come through with flying colours.

Lifting the track was an interesting experience. I just hope that I step onto the trackpins which disappeared into the bedroom carpet before my wife does!!!!

A new track plan has been devised and tested, and it works! Hoping to get this one pinned down tomorrow, but Hull Kingston Rovers play Leeds tomorrow, and it's live on TV, so progress may be slower than planned. :D

Where on Earth did you get your points from Trev?:eek: Peco's quality control system isn't usually that bad.

I didn't write that very well John, sorry!

Three of the points were the ones I had trouble with before taking the track up. One didn't isolate, one didn't transmit power and the other one was the one that the 73 didn't like. The fourth one was just a bit dodgy so it got discarded anyway. I didn't want to get to the stage of finishing laying the track to find problems again, so I've only used those which I'm confident of. Famous last words!!!!

I started pinning the track down today, and have done quite a bit (despite the diversion of Rovers being on the TV...they won 22-20 and have gone top of the Rugby League Super League :D ). I'm testing every section with the 73 as I lay it, so fingers crossed that everything works as it should do when I've finished.

This layout uses ten points, and to be honest with you, it seems to be a better plan than the last one. A very long passing loop (which manages to give the impression of double track for almost half of the oval), DMU bay, carriage siding, loco refuelling/stabling point, and a small goods yard.

Sounds good Trev. I always think it's better when a layout evolves instead of being built to a rigid plan. By all means use a published plan as a starting point but you will get more enjoyment from the layout if it is customised to suit your interests and requirements.
Attachment 119

P.S. Do you like my new Avatar?

Frankly speaking, it's a disgrace. If Warrington manage to turn over the resurgent Robins next weekend then I'll be complaining to Ian :D . There again, Warrington only managed to beat the black and whites from the KC stadium by one point so I reckon Rovers can do the business over there in Cheshire. :) And... er.... we won't mention St Helens :cool:

Finished pinning the track down today. And everything works !!!! I did a thorough test with each locomotive and there are no problems at all. I think I'm finally at the scenery stage!

Wonderful, go for it Trev:)
It's about time you started to see something for your efforts.

P.S. I am not really a Wolves fan but I will be looking out for the result next week, just for curiosity:D

Trev,
Good to hear you have got it sorted. Hope you find as much fun in the scenery building as I did. Great to build a town or village up from scratch. You are town planner , builder and customer all in one so planning permission is not a problem. Post some shot of the layout before building starts then as you go. I enjoy seeing a layout coming together.
Syd

Sounds good Trev. How about a photo or two!

John H-T.

Hi Trev,
just been reading your column (supposed to be working!) i must say i have laughed and cried ! have forgotten how much fun model railway builing is! have a small oo london tram layout. I am currently planning a small Southern region emu layout, probably based on Bromley North.keep up the good work , i dont think i will swop to N from oo though!
tony

Like I said, if this is fun, then I'm going to take up lion taming!

I'd like to John, but I don't have a working camera at the moment. However, as soon as I can get one I'll post some pics.

It's the scenery that I'm looking forward to doing the most. I've taken a lot of inspiration from your layout, so when I do get around to uploading pics, don't get confused and think 'Hmm, now where have I seen that before?' :D

I won't be doing much this weekend, as I'm working, but come Monday I'll be going into town to buy a selection of flocks, powders and paints. :)

Attachment 126 30 Attachment 127 12

Never mind Trev. At least the layout's progressing well.;)

Thank you for not mentioning the St Helen's match. :o

That's OK Trev. I am not normally a cruel person so I will say no more.;)

Nothing to do with my layout, which has come to another grinding halt, but can I just mention the fact that the mighty Rovers overcame the ridiculous Hull FC by 14 points to 10 yesterday? :) :) :) :)

Almost a year since I posted in this thread, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to update it a bit and let you all know of the progress of the South Holderness Railway Preservation Society.

Well, I must admit, very little progress, in fact I've gone backward. I'm hoping to move house later this year, and so all trackwork has been taken up and the original baseboard scrapped. Thankfully all of the track came up unscathed (it was never glued, only pinned down, thanks to whoever it was that gave me that tip!) and everything has been carefully put away, ready for a resurrection at some point in the the future.

Stock acquisition has not completely stopped... the society took the opportunity to buy a Class 04 a month ago. After a short test run, this latest member of the fleet has been stored along with all of the other rolling stock at DB (Drawer under the Bed) depot!

Well, that could well be it for another year, but who knows? :D

(But on the other hand, Super League has started, and Hull KR are tipped for big things this season!)