Railway Forum - Is deisel dying?

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- - Is deisel dying? (https://www.railwayforum.net/showthread.php?t=5391)

Quote:

Originally Posted by swisstrains (Post 31766)

I like steam locos and even have a soft spot for some diesels but as far as modern day traction goes it is hard to better electrics.
Electric trains, with fewer moving parts, are much cheaper to maintain than diesels, which more than compensates for any costs involved in servicing the overhead line equipment.
Although it’s true that most power generation at present does cause pollution this can’t be used as an argument against electrification because the technology exists to rectify the matter and most governments are actively working towards that end. Even in today’s situation diesel fuel isn’t any better as it still has to be produced and oil refineries are amongst the biggest polluters on the planet.
It has also been suggested that further railway electrification shouldn’t take place because of the risk of power cuts and industrial action. Why? Using the same logic we would have to go back to gas lighting and candles just in case.
As for potential weather problems it has to be said that many countries with far harsher climates than ours cope perfectly well with electrified railways. Overhead line equipment when properly installed is pretty robust.
The preference for a loco to carry its own power supply no doubt stems from a liking for steam and diesels but it’s this feature that helps make these locos so inefficient. Because it doesn’t have to carry round a steam boiler or diesel engine and tons/gallons of fuel an electric loco has a much better power to weight ratio. A Class 91 electric has more than twice the power of a Class 67 diesel yet weighs 6 tonnes less.

I totally agree with all you say John. The foreseeable future is electric with diesel filling in the gaps. Any return to steam as a day to day motive power is pure fantasy. The only proven motive power for high speed lines is electric. I do not see steam locomotives that can routinely run reliably at speeds 50% above current world record being developed, when there is doubt about financing the high speed routes using proven motive power!

We have our heritage steam which is great, but for day to day use forget it.

Swiss Railways have managed fine with electric for decades!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Why didn't we keep the system employed by ER on the Woodhead route.
The loco put power back into the system as it coasted downhill.:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by swisstrains (Post 31752)

"The 14:20 Solarsupervoyager to London Euston is running 6 minutes late due to overcast conditions in the Wigan area":)

We don't have overcast conditions in the Wigan area, due to our sunny dispositions.

Mickey (on behalf of the natives of the centre of the known universe).:D :D :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by springs branch mickey (Post 31786)

Mickey (on behalf of the natives of the centre of the known universe).:D :D :D

It seems that you have competition from a small town not far from Sydney for that title, well in Australian Terms!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

I do feel that electric is too expensive.
There are many lines that have had their wires taken down beacuase of this.
The fact is that electric is a massive power waster.
Whenever there is no trains on a section, power is wasted.
Because electricity can only be carried so far, there is many circuits.
To make it work, power needs to be switched off when a train is not on the section. This can be done by automatic switches at junctions.
There is a problem however, the wires are quite unsightly.
You may not think it such a problem, but our heritage is at stake when it comes to the great western line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steam for ever (Post 31801)

I do feel that electric is too expensive.
There are many lines that have had their wires taken down beacuase of this.

Can you name some of these many lines please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by steam for ever (Post 31801)

The fact is that electric is a massive power waster.
Whenever there is no trains on a section, power is wasted.
Because electricity can only be carried so far, there is many circuits.
To make it work, power needs to be switched off when a train is not on the section.

Where does this power go when there are no trains running?

Quote:

Originally Posted by steam for ever (Post 31801)

You may not think it such a problem, but our heritage is at stake when it comes to the great western line.

And our future is at stake if we don't modernise the railways.

Its all around the network.
You just have to look closely to see the signs of this.
I think the mid cheshire line was at one point as there is a few old wire poles along the line. Lokk at altrincham for example.
I do have a book on this somewhere.

Exactly, where is the power going? It certanly is not being used as it is separate from other circuits.

The whole point about the future is that it hasn't happened yet. We can shape and mould it as long as we are imaginative. Imagination can lead us any where, so we could find a way to save the old as well as making new.
The human race is a clever race (most of it) and because of this look at what has been achieved.
Here is something to think about. We are all made of stardust. Stars give life.
We are all the same thing except in different forms, so maybe we should think as one and look forward to the future. The future can be as we like it if we get up and do something towards that.

I finish with this, If we can save out heritage, it will teach future gererations and prevent us from forgetting our past.
The dream of Tornado was about bringing the past to the future.
To remember who we are, we need to remember who we were and live the past.
Lessons from the past can shape the future. Who knows, I we want it there could be steam around for a very long time and If we want it, we can find a way forward that helps us all and so creates a brighter future.

I can believe that we are all made of stardust but I don't believe the Mid Cheshire line was ever electrified beyond Altrincham.

Heritage Lines seem to be doing OK at the present.

We do however need to look forward to produce a viable transport system for this country for the future. The main compeditor with Rail is Air Transport. In conservation terms we just cannot continue to use Air Transport for shorthaul. It is too damaging to the environment. The only way to provide an alternative to air is to build High Speed Rail links powered by electricity.

Try applying some logic to your rhetoric Steam for ever!

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Has electrification of the WCML and ECML acheived any significant improvements ?

The diesel HST provided a quality service on the existing network

The trend is to buy into this electrification ideology, but is it really worth it.

Cheaper fares are more important than so called state of the art electric trains.