Well it's better than TP Express axing a 2 hourly Manchester Airport-Preston-Windermere service to be able to have enough 100mph 3 car 185s to be able to run a 2 hourly Manchester Airport-Preston-Scotland service (which they bidded for), when Virgin previously ran a 2 hourly Manchester Piccadilly-Preston-Scotland service using 125mph 4 car 220s.

The 185 is certainly not suited to the route but then voyagers were hardly suitable either. My point really was that a route which most associate with 8 coach express trains gets 2 car (latter 3 car) trains for the stoppers and then runs them all the way to Nottingham, only to replace them with the only slightly more suitable Meridians, meaning that the 'Regional Express' service now provided by an Intercity operator is blighted by the 170s.

In reality, which is more suited to 170s, London to Nottingham, or Liverpool to Norwich?

Voyagers would be better suited to the Manchester to Scotland route if the route went Manchester-Wigan-Preston rather than Manchester-Bolton-Preston.

The longest journey I've done on a 170 is Liverpool to Manchester but I would not have been dissatisified with the quality of the train if I was continuing my journey to Sheffield or Nottingham.

I was on a 170 from Manchester to Peterborough, I will never be again!
The earliest I got a seat was Nottingham and even then it was only the vestibule one. Three coaches on a mid morning saturday service, not enough.

I would rather take the 185 to Leeds before heading south for a similar journey time (from my house).

You might never be able to again as EMT only use 158s on the Liverpool to Norwich route. EMT do use pairs of 2 car 158s on selected services now.

Yeah that used to be an odd set of operations (from what I remember there was timetabled a trolley service on one Blackpool-Buxton that left after 17:00, but I don't know if it ever turned up ;) ), but it was like you say, offering a very different service by the same operator. I think the idea of this was FNW's intercity Man Airport to Blackpool, alongside their local stopping service (which ironically went further), but that Man Airport to Blackpool stopped at a lot of stations (over 15 I think), didn't feel like much of an express until it was taken into TPX who altered stopping patterns.

i think london midland is the most exciting of the new franchises, not only does it have a great name and livery, but there is going to be serious long needed investiment in turbostars to replace sprinters, and desiros to replace class 321 electric units. East Midlands Trains sees little improvement as far as i can see, whilst crosscountry sees downgrading though thats because theres a refusal to add more coaches to voyager units, so you end up taking away much needed facilities (one toilet and the shop)

I agree, London Midland is a breath of fresh air after the whole Central Trains that was too large.