Single fares v Return fares.

[swisstrains]

For day trips why are National Rail walk-on single fares so expensive when compared to the equivalent return fares?
My wife and I are keen walkers and there are many places within a 10-12 mile radius of our local station that would make excellent starting points for a walk back home.
To give some examples of what I mean the cheapest available single fare to Chester is £5.30 but the equivalent return is only £5.60. The cheapest available single fare to Lostock Gralam is £9.20 whilst the return is only £11.20. Although farther afield another possibility is Altrincham but once again the cheapest single ticket costs £9.50 against a return fare of only £10.20.
I suppose National Rail would argue that the single fare is the correct price and that you are getting a fantastic discount for buying a return but I find it very hard to think that way myself.

[Yeuclid]

The anomaly is different when booking in advance.

When I book online, it always suggests that 2 singles may be cheaper than a return. And yes, it always turns out to be the case.

It defies logic. But then that's the crazy world of the UK today.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by Yeuclid

The anomaly is different when booking in advance.

When I book online, it always suggests that 2 singles may be cheaper than a return. And yes, it always turns out to be the case.

It defies logic. But then that's the crazy world of the UK today.

Yes Yeuclid when travelling longer distances I've benefited from this myself but unfortunately advance booking doesn't result in any discounts for the local destinations that I mentioned.

[bramleyman]

The fare structure on the railway has always puzzled me, even though I was an RPI for a spell.

Some years ago and while I was working on the railway, my sister travelled by train from Chester to Euston without a ticket, while on her way to Essex for a family funeral and so staying for a few days. Because the train she needed was in the platform at Chester 15 minutes after getting to the station and Still in the queue trying to get a ticket, so she wanted to pay on the train. Not one member of staff walked through that train checking tickets and so upon arrival at Euston, plus being honest, she enquired where she had to pay? Because of her honesty, she was told to continue her journey without paying.

On the return leg, she ensured she Did have a ticket for the complete journey and enquiring about the difference between the single back to Chester from her then departure point, compared to the return fare she Would have paid had she got a ticket from the start was a whopping 10p.

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by bramleyman

......................On the return leg, she ensured she Did have a ticket for the complete journey and enquiring about the difference between the single back to Chester from her then departure point, compared to the return fare she Would have paid had she got a ticket from the start was a whopping 10p.

I wonder if we had these crazy ticket prices prior to nationalisation?
I know in the late 50's that the Cheap Day Return from my local station to Liverpool was considerably cheaper than the available ordinary single. When asked for a "single to Lime Street" the booking clerk would always sell you a day return and tell you to throw the other half away.

[reflector]

There's nothing new in this. I can remember many, many years ago having quite an argument with a booking clerk at Birmingham Snow Hill trying to sell me a ticket to Malvern Link.

I asked for a single as I was going home and he said "You want a day return." I said "No, I want a single." This was repeated several times until he said "Look, I'm trying to be save you money - a day return is 6/- (30p), a single is 6/9d (around 33p). Do you still want a single?" I muttered "Thank you very much - I'll have a day return please!"

Difficult to fathom out 50 years ago - not much easier today.

[Midland Compound]

Originally Posted by reflector

I asked for a single as I was going home and he said "You want a day return." I said "No, I want a single." This was repeated several times until he said "Look, I'm trying to be save you money - a day return is 6/- (30p), a single is 6/9d (around 33p). Do you still want a single?" I muttered "Thank you very much - I'll have a day return please!"

Difficult to fathom out 50 years ago - not much easier today.

On the plus side, today you can use a search engine to find out the relevant fares.

On the minus side, I bet these days most booking clerks would just sell you the single ticket !

Having said that, it was a London Midland conductor who brought my attention to the fact that the Crewe to Telford return fare (valid via Wolverhampton) is considerably cheaper than the Crewe to Wolverhampton return !

[reflector]

Originally Posted by Midland Compound

Having said that, it was a London Midland conductor who brought my attention to the fact that the Crewe to Telford return fare (valid via Wolverhampton) is considerably cheaper than the Crewe to Wolverhampton return !

Good for them. Contrast that with a Central Trains Ticket Inspector (or Revenue Protection Officer or whatever they called themselves) a couple of years ago who questioned the validity of my West Midland Day Ranger ticket between Longbridge and Barnt Green. She clearly didn't know the difference between that and a Centro Daytripper ticket but in the end gave me the benefit of the doubt. I even showed her the relevant leaflet but she was still doubtful.

I complained to Central Trains who came back with the astonishing reply that with the range of tickets available, it wasn't surprising that she confused the two. If the management didn't even expect their own staff to understand, what hope the passenger (sorry, customer)?

[hstudent]

Day Singles (previously Standard Day Singles) are available on fares set by any TOC but Off-Peak Day Singles are available for fares set by selected TOCs e.g. with Transpennine Express, but not with Northern Rail.

This makes some single journeys very expensive at peak times. I've seen one that was £10.80 for a single but £11.00 for an off-peak return.

For a journey to stations like Manchester Airport or Liverpool South Parkway then the train can be seen as an unattractive option if an Off-Peak Return (previously Saver) is not available, as most passengers using those stations won't be returning the same day.

[hstudent]

Originally Posted by reflector

I asked for a single as I was going home and he said "You want a day return." I said "No, I want a single." This was repeated several times until he said "Look, I'm trying to be save you money - a day return is 6/- (30p), a single is 6/9d (around 33p). Do you still want a single?" I muttered "Thank you very much - I'll have a day return please!"

I've heard someone ask for two singles for Knutsford to Manchester. They were told a Duo to Manchester is cheaper (150% of the cost of an off-peak return.)

I've also heard people at Altrincham and Stockport in the evenings ask for singles and get told an Evening Return is cheaper (50% the cost of an off-peak return.)

On the plus side when people buy returns and don't use the return section it helps make up for unaccounted passengers in statistics, in particular one's that board at unstaffed stations and the conductor on the train doesn't have time to sell them a ticket.