Newby with an axe to grind ..

[62440]

It's all about "Bums on seats" and if people are going to make return visits then the "Product" has got to be displayed in an as attractive as possible condition. To turn out locos (and stock) in as filthy a condition as I recall from the late 1950's-early 1960's is just going to send Joe Public home with a poor impression and an unwillingness to return, ever. Preserved lines are part of the Tourist industry nowadays, actual transportation comes a long way down the list.

In respect of the Severn Valley Railway, they do have means to turn locos round, there is a turntable at Kidderminster. There was once a plan to install one at Bridgnorth but this was stymied by lack of a place to put it.

Regards, 62440.

[JEB-245584/2]

Hi LMSman and welcome to the forum, this is an interesting debate you have started, yes there is a shortage of locos in the LMS style, but as Ken as posted there will be two at the East Lancs in the not to distant future.

I don't think any owner of a loco ever forgets its heritage but what you have to take into consideration is there is'nt many people around who remember the pre-nationalisation liveries, but there are plenty who can relate to the BR era.

Whatever colour or style a loco is in you will always get some people who agree or disagree with it and as most people have said it is down to the owners what colour it is turned out in but all in all I think most owners will try and stick to a true scheme for the loco.

Cheers John

[Dave Rowland]

Originally Posted by 62440

It's all about "Bums on seats" and if people are going to make return visits then the "Product" has got to be displayed in an as attractive as possible condition. To turn out locos (and stock) in as filthy a condition as I recall from the late 1950's-early 1960's is just going to send Joe Public home with a poor impression and an unwillingness to return, ever. Preserved lines are part of the Tourist industry nowadays, actual transportation comes a long way down the list.

In respect of the Severn Valley Railway, they do have means to turn locos round, there is a turntable at Kidderminster. There was once a plan to install one at Bridgnorth but this was stymied by lack of a place to put it.

Regards, 62440.

I agree completely, but must admit to missing grubby locos; I suppose everyone would like to recapture their past in some obscure way, and it was a rare treat to see a gleaming ex-works loco steaming into a station in the 60s, but by and large I think most will remember wheezing, clanking things, with smoke & steam leaking from every orifice, so grimy it was sometimes difficult to see the numbers (especially on the Western Region with the brass numberplates). I'd love to go back and see it all again.... (sigh). Still, better having locos looking like they've just been taken out of the box than no locos at all. However, I do NOT like the horrible brown ROD livery applied to the GWR 53xx 2-6-0/ Yuccchhhh.

[LMSman]

Originally Posted by 62440

It's all about "Bums on seats" and if people are going to make return visits then the "Product" has got to be displayed in an as attractive as possible condition. To turn out locos (and stock) in as filthy a condition as I recall from the late 1950's-early 1960's is just going to send Joe Public home with a poor impression and an unwillingness to return, ever. Preserved lines are part of the Tourist industry nowadays, actual transportation comes a long way down the list.

Regards, 62440.

I can't dispute that, but it is still, I feel, missing something to present an idealised picture.

Go to the black country museum, at Dudley.

It shows what the buildings were, very sanitized, but not what the life was .. look at photo's of the rubbish filled streets, snotty nosed kids with the arses out of their trousers.

I went to Grimsby the other day .. one of my earlier lives was as a sparks on Hull & Grimsby Trawlers .. there is a fisheries museum and exhibition, and an old Grimsby Ross Trawler (The Tiger if I recall correctly) .. all very good intentions .. but nothing really like life on distant water trawlers ..

I don't know how they could show the real 'reality', but they are trying ..

The railways aren't ..

Yes, they are part of the Tourist Industry .. But they do get grants for Education purposes .. I believe that is where a lot of funding for SVR's Engine House was sourced .. I am not sure how much education there actually is.

I don't have an answer, but if heritage railways are to be more than the icing on a cake, they need to show the dirt under the fingernails.

I know this has gone off my original topic, (before someone else raises that point.

[Belmont Road]

Originally Posted by LMSman

I can't really be in dispute with what has been achieved in preserving this heritage, I do love to see and experience these machines, from the diminutive Ffestiniog stock through to main line expresses and the carriage sets, but it is, and I admit, has to be, a utopia which is being shown. but where is the equivalent of the ...

"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days, With a cargo of Tyne coal, ..." (Masefield) being shown for those who never experienced it?.

I don't have much of an opinion on this, but I am not that keen on seeing locos in unauthentic liveries, but I'll make an exception for the Hogwarts variation as I am sure it bought massive cash rewards for the owners and helped to create an interest in railways.

I know what you mean with the Masefield quote, I remember steam days well and worked professionally on them for a while.

I'd love to have a time machine sometimes, but even a presereved railway is nothing like those days we can never fully create the past except through our imagination.