Sleeper/ Overnight Trains

[Ian_Kettle]

Hi there,

I am a transport designer studying at Coventry University and am currently involved in a project concerning overnight trains. A team of six transport and product designers, including myself, are researching the possibility of redesigning the interior of sleeper carriages to offer a higher level of comfort for users, along with greater efficiency and durability for rail operators.

As rail enthusiasts, we hope that you will be able to give us expert advice and opinions on carriage design. We are currently in the research phase of the project with conceptual sketching beginning by the end of November. What we are looking for are thoughts on the following range of topics:

- What annoys you and what do you love about current sleeper carriage design?
- Are there particular designs/ layouts that you think work best?
- Have you ever travelled on an overnight train? If so, where, when and what was the experience like?
- Do have any ideas for general carriage and more specifically sleeper carriage design that you are eager to see implemented?

Thoughts and comments on any of the above would be greatly appreciated by myself and my team. We value the input of enthusiasts as you know and love your subject, yet are often overlooked when it comes to new product planning.

Just to give you a quick reassurance of the validity of this project: we are all students in our third year of study at Coventry University in the UK, studying for an MDes in Transport Design. The course has an international reputation for producing world-class designers; most of the cars you see everyday have had some Coventry graduates working on their design, many boats are designed by Coventry graduates (Sunseeker and Fairline are big Coventry employers) and hundreds of products are designed every year by our graduates, many of which you will own. We are seeking industry collaboration for our project and are also preparing to contact Virgin Trains here in the UK. So who knows? Some of your feedback may directly influence our designs and be seen in a carriage near you in the future!

Thank you very much for your time- every comment helps, especially if it is negative!

Ian Kettle
MDes Transport Designer
Coventry UK

PS. If anyone is interested in taking this further and helping us with a 1-on-1 interview either by email or phone (UK only) or in person (UK only) it would be very much appreciated. I can be reached at:

[email protected]
[email protected]
+44 7903 324236 (UK)

[pavorossi]

Hello and welcome to the forum Ian. Unfortunately, I have no knowledge of current carriages designs so am unable to help, but I hope someone can give you the information you need.

Adam

[GWR9600]

Have you tried RailChat they are more aimed at the proffessional railwyman. There address is www.railchat.co.uk not that we mght not be able to help just they are more for the proffesionals.

[swisstrains]

Hello Ian, welcome to the Forum.
I hope someone on the Forum can help you but as sleeper services are such a specialised market I have my doubts.
Also, wouldn't you be better asking one of the overnight train operators to collaborate with you instead of Virgin Trains?
Good luck.

[Shed Cat]

Best wishes for your study. I think it is really innovative that you are asking enthusiasts for input as, while we have many axes to grind , they are generally not biased by commercial vested interests.

Unfortunately I have never travelled on a sleeper myself and my knowledge is based on old books. e.g. Bulleid's attempt to better space plan sleeping compartments using tapered beds:- which lead to the graffitti:- "We aren't sleeping in coffins ! "

Then didn't he try to lay out beds longitudinally rather than transversely, which was another failure.

I suspect that if you had the time to research the history books, you would find that every brilliant new idea had been tried out in the past, with unpredictable results. I am not saying you can't ever improve a design, but only that achieving a quantum leap is unlikely.

I would guess that the market for sleeper accomodation is mostly luxury based, rather than utility. So piling up Japanese micro-hotel sleeping pods into a coach is probably not the way to go...........unless it became fashionable to travel that way! Now't so queer as folk !

[DSY011]

As a youngster I lived at a city called Ndola in Zambia. We used the train to travel to Cape Town and other South African holiday spots. The train from Ndola to Bulawayo took 1 day and 2 nights. From Bulawayo to Cape Town also took 2 nights and 3 days. The trip was done in a compartment 1st class with 4 beads or 2nd class with 6 beads. The beds were set out with 3 on each side, the top and middle ones folding up during the day. There was also a table which folded up to revile a wash basin with hot and cold water. There were also 2 bed 1st class and 3 bed 2nd Class compartments. Due to the time spent on the train, we used the compartment for the whole trip from Ndola to Bulawayo, and from Bulawayo to Cape Town. There was room for the 4 kids to have a bit of space while my parents had the 2 bed compartment next door.
Syd

[FHRG]

The problems with sleeping cars that I have used, a long time back now, are stuffiness, heating control, having to sleep head to the corridor (noise), and in lower class the difficulty of two persons having to share very limited space. What it must be like in a continental T3 (3 berths) I cannot imagine. Couchette cars are another set of problems as 6 people have to share ! I once travelled in a 1st class German car with an ingenious method of longitudinal berths rather than transverse, unfortunately memory is hazy as to the exact arrangement but it was comfortable.

[Trev]

Totally off topic, but I used to love riding on the overnight trains.

Vivid memories of trundling back from Newcastle in a train of corridor coaches at two o'clock in the morning. We'd been to see Lindisfarne (folk rock band from the 70's)...all of us full of Newcastle Brown Ale and playing the harmonica in the compartment as the Class 40 dragged us south towards York. And then a two hour wait at Selby for a connection to Hull!

Welcome to the forum Ian.

[Ian_Kettle]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick thanks for the responses. As you can imagine, it is quite difficult to get good quality research from speaking directly to people, especially when they learn you are from a university rather than a company.

An offshoot of this project for us is to look at double-decker carriages and a hypothetical way of introducing them into UK routes, although I believe that they cannot be used in the UK due to the gauge we employ (???). As it happens, I read in Railways Illustrated that Virgin had recently run from Glasgow to Euston in 3hrs 52min, which if done regularly, could reduce the need for a full overnight service.

The problem for us is justifying the use of sleeper trains. We have been set the brief to design the carriages, but our research frequently leads us to the conclusion that low cost airlines represent huge competiton. Unless you had a real aversion to flying, it could be difficult to justify taking the train, especially when it is often only marginally cheaper. We are increasingly being forced down the specialist route; looking at carriages for specific markets and user groups rather than the general public, which is not something I personally want to do.

The testamonials in the replies are great- they provide the kind of information that is difficult to get elsewhere. Obviously, rail compainies wont tell us what is wrong with their carriages (e.g. the heating controls) and there is only so much first-hand information you can gain from books and magazines.

Thanks again for the help and advice,

Ian

PS. DSY011, when did you travel from Bulawayo to Cape Town? My dad was born in Bulawayo and says he has vague recollections of being taken by train into South Africa in the 1950s.

[DSY011]

Ian_Kettle
I was in Bulawayo in 1950 and moved to Ndola in the late 50's.The trip I wrote about was in about 1958 and again in 1963.We traveled from Ndola to Cape Town then on to Jo'burg 3 weeks later. We spent 5 weeks in S. Africa as it was the long school holiday and there were lots of people to see. My younger sister was also born in Bulawayo in 1952. My father started out as a carriage and wagon examiner in Bulawayo, then he went onto the RR police as a CID officer.
Syd