Ancient operations

[bigmacca1]

In the mid 60's my family and I went to Jersey via rail and air, from Accrington Lancs. The outward journey was steam-powered (Kohlapur as I recall) from Accrington to London Euston but via the Bury line, Manchester Victoria, and, I assume, Ashton Moss North/South Junctions to Stockport. At Stockport an 08 shunter detached the 8 coaches of our train from the Jubilee, dragged them backwards and then attached them to the rear of a London-bound train waiting in the station, hauled, I believe, by one of the then AL1 bo-bos. Yeah, a very convoluted journey. From Euston we went across to Waterloo and thence to Southampton. On our return, because of the British United Airways strike, we were late back into Southampton, caught the first available train back to Waterloo and my dad then set about working out how to get back to Accrington. Now this is where my query comes in. Given that it's about 1965, I've convinced myself that rather from getting a train from Euston we got a very late train from either St Pancras or Marylebone, (I've even had this fantasy that it might actually have been Paddington!) arriving at Preston at about 01:00 the following morning. We slept in the waiting room at Preston and caught the first DMU to Accrington. Is this feasible in this era? I've not got access to working (or any) timetables from the '60s and wondered if any of you 'pathing experts' might know which station - other than Euston - could have sent us off merrily to Preston without having to change anywhere. Sorry about the long-windedness but the expedition was quite intriguing and not being (at 14) so train-savvy as now, I'm baffled as to which crafty way my dad managed to get us back! Thanks for any ideas

[swisstrains]

Did the AL1 electric haul your southbound train all the way to Euston or was it changed en route?
I ask this because the Euston-Crewe section of the West Coast main line was still being electrified in 1965 and may well have been closed during the night and at weekends whilst construction work took place. It's possible that your train could have been diverted from Euston and might have departed from any of the stations that you mention (including Paddington).

[wyvern]

In those days there was a night time train through Derby which was London St Pancras to Glasgow and I think it went via Manchester rather than the S&C. That might have stopped at Preston.

[bigmacca1]

I've convinced myself that the AL1 went all the way to Euston, but then again it could have gone Handforth/Wilmslow/Crewe and changed locos again there. It was the shunting at Stockport that I found really intriguing. A bit of thought must have gone into that one! I think it was part of a special 'holidaymakers' excursion, avoiding changing trains at Manchester hence the circuitous route! There's always something more atmospheric as well, about operations late at night! Thanks for the replies, guys. The London St. Pancras train sounds very plausible, given the lateness of our arrival back at Waterloo; the flexibility that we obviously had then has long since gone, I guess! I often wonder what the consist would have been for the return train if we'd actually been able to make it during the daylight hours. I don't think the little shunting manouevre on the outward trip would have been repeated, however! Again, thanks to both of you for the replies!

[swisstrains]

Originally Posted by bigmacca1

........................ I think it was part of a special 'holidaymakers' excursion, avoiding changing trains at Manchester hence the circuitous route! ........................................

Not necessarily. Until about 1966 through carriages regularly operated between Colne and London Euston (via Accrington, Manchester Victoria and Stockport). They were attached to London trains at Stockport just as you describe.

The first time I ever saw one of these services (passing Manchester Exchange) I was convinced that I had seen my first boat train. I misread the boards on the carriages and thought it said London - Cologne........I was only about 10 at the time. I had obviously heard of Cologne but not Colne.

[bigmacca1]

I'm surprised that the Ashton Moss route wasn't used more often to relieve pressure on Piccadilly. When I went down it last in the late 80's (can't remember where the train's ultimate destination was but it was a 31 with about 6 or 8 mk II's behind) it was squealing a bit on the tight curves, lots of rusty overgrown track in places, but perfectly serviceable and would have been handy for Cross Country. Now there's just that stupid one-way Parliamentary train each Friday, Stockport to Stalybridge; a little 'out-of-the-box' thinking wouldn't go amiss especially with NR.

[Tony]

Between Jan 1958 and Dec 1960 I travelled regularly from Manchester to Aylesbury, firstly by the 16.30 from London Road (now Piccadilli) via Sheffield and the Great Central direct to Aylesbury, hauled by an A3 pacific. Sometime during late 1959, London road was closed for rebuilding and the 16.30 departed from Manchester Echange, hauled by a black five, and went by the Reddish line to Stockport, then started a cross country saga (Macclesfield, Stoke, Wolverhampton, Coventry, Rugby and so to Watford). Arrival at Watford was always at least an hour late so we missed the last bus to Rickmansworth. This route was used because of the electrification and rebuilding of the West Coast main line . This meant waiting for the milk train at 02.00 to get to Euston to have our travel passes stamped at the "Regulators" office to prove our excuse for late arrival a Halton Camp. Oh! happy Days!

[bigmacca1]

These 'crazy' routes are excellent for seeing bits of the railway you'd otherwise miss. When I was travelling back to Keele from Accrington in the late 80's there must have been a Civil Engineer's possession south of Warrington because from Preston the normal 86/87 was replaced by a 47. Didn't think much about it until south of Warrington - probably Acton Grange junction we veer off to the left and grind our way through the mid-Cheshire saltfield, crawling merrily past ICI at Lostock Gralam and Plumley and returning to the main line somewhere north of Sandbach, I think! I don't think that route was at all suitable for MKIII what with all the squealing and protesting that the flanges were making but hey, that used to be the fun of Sunday travel on BR. Another Sunday the train from Preston didn't even get to Warrington; it just made a left at Euxton and down the line through Chorley and via the Windsor link, through Oxford Road and Piccadilly, through Stockport, made a right at Cheadle Hulme and went to Crewe via Goostrey and Holmes Chapel. You couldn't have planned that! Some of the passengers were moaning about the extra 40 minutes or so but some people are never satisfied! lol! Given the choice between rail replacement and the scenic routes through mid-Cheshire and Windsor Bridge....it's a no-brainer!

[bigmacca1]

I was also privileged to see two appearances - in the last days of steam - of Britannia Oliver Cromwell and 4472 Flying Scotsman at Accrington; they'd come to reverse on the triangle before coupling on to the other end of their respective trains. Oliver Cromwell's driver slightly misjudged the amount of grease on the track and the old girl slid forward two or three feet, drivers completely stationary, before she came to a stop. Even uncoupled from her train she 'lost her feet' moving towards the crossover on the station throat. All good stuff for the cine cameras around - no videos in those days, obviously - but as they were probably silent 8mm the sound would have been totally wasted!

[Bevan Price]

I was working in London from 1963 to 1965, making regular weekend trips home to St. Helens via Liverpool). Electric working through to Euston commenced in about 1966. The loco change point from electric to diesel haulage changed progressively from Crewe (until 1964), then Nuneaton (from mid 1964), and finally Rugby (circa late 1964). We had numerous diversions en route, but at the London end, the train went once or twice to Kensingon Olympia, but otherwise we always arrived at Euston (once about 5 hours late after D269 failed at Walsall.)