End of the line for EWS?

[Dynamo]

Here's a pic of EWS loco 60074 which has just been brought out of storage and been given a repaint and named at a ceremony at Yorks NRM. Aside from the colour, which is a one off in connection with the name the loco was given, the one main thing to strike people is the fact that neither the name EWS, nor the logo is on the locomotive. Instead it is replaced by the DB Schenker logo. A colleage of mine reckons that DB Schenker's policy is to bring all the companies that they own under one roof, so not only will the EWS subsidiaries (Enegry, Industrial, International etc) cease to exist, but the brand as a whole.

[Foghut]

Well I'll miss Rhubarb & Custard, I always thought that they made a good corporate brand.

On a more practical level, I worry that there are very rough times ahead for the staff of EWS. I hope that the long knives don't come out to cut the business to the bare bones. :(

[paul miller]

I think that the EWS livery was one of the more succesful of the privatised liveries. At least they still looked like a loco rather than an advert for toothpaste.
Paul.

[LesG]

Speaking as an EWS employee,

There has been no staff notice to this effect, From what we are being told it is business as usual under the EWS brand.

Personally I would'nt read to much into the fact that one locomotive out of approx 300 has been applied with the DB branding.

Les

[Shed Cat]

The balloons in the picture are a nice touch - really festive. :rolleyes:

[swisstrains]

The balloons in the picture are a nice touch - really festive. :rolleyes:

The balloons are promoting the Teenage Cancer Trust in whose honour the loco was named.

[Dynamo]

Speaking as an EWS employee,

There has been no staff notice to this effect, From what we are being told it is business as usual under the EWS brand.



I am also an EWS employee and rumours have been rife for a long time from various sources that the four new sectors will be the first thing to see the axe now that DB have taken hold of the reigns. I doubt that they will only go that far as well.

I do however still feel confident that the company is headed in the right direction. Making the sectors has obviously helped the company become much leaner and meaner, and where I am at Thornaby, we are all pretty optimistic about our future.

[Shed Cat]

The balloons are promoting the Teenage Cancer Trust in whose honour the loco was named.

Sorry, didnt realise that. :o Looked they were only there to celebrate a paint job on the loco.

[mart_56110]

I do however still feel confident that the company is headed in the right direction. Making the sectors has obviously helped the company become much leaner and meaner, and where I am at Thornaby, we are all pretty optimistic about our future.


Hello,

What does the future hold for Thornaby TMD, i pass it most days and normally
they are a few locos stabled on the shed. I take it its just used for fueling locos now and not major work? If it does close for good i wonder if it will be sold off.

Thanks,
Martin

[Dynamo]

The future for Thornaby is simple. There isn't one. The only reason its still open at this moment in time is to fuel loco's and to use the wheel lathe.

All the drivers, including myself, have been moved to refurbished accomodation in Tees Yard, though we are still known as Thornaby. A fueling terminal has been removed from Masborough depot in Rotherham to Tees Yard and awaits commissioning. Once thats done, it will only be the wheel lathe that the depot is used for.

As things stand though, the wheel lathe isn't going to be taken out of service any time soon. Originally, the idea was to jack vehicles up and remove any wheels that needed turning and replacing them, but someone twigged that it would be much cheaper just roll a wagon onto the lathe and turn the damaged wheel and then get the wagon back into service in quick time. Much cheaper than removing wheel sets and carting them across the country. The latest rumour on the go is that they want to build a purpose built wheel lathe shed somewhere in Tees Yard and move Thornabys wheel lathe into it.

The bottom line is that EWS want to close Thornaby Depot as quickly as possible so as to avoid paying rates on the buildings. All major maintainance is now done at Toton. I think Stockton council has their eyes on the land that will become available once its closed.

[hairyhandedfool]

The nail in EWS coffin was when it seemed to believe it could win contracts by just submitting a bid. It failed to take account of changing times and other operators. The loss of the Royal Mail contract was, in all fairness, probably not it's fault but I believe EWS thought it would be the preffered bidder all the time, and that was never likely to be the case for long.

[mart_56110]

Thanks for that information Dynamo.

It will be a great shame the day it does close down!
So what EWS depot are still fully open now? cannot be many left!

Martrin

[LesG]

Thanks for that information Dynamo.

It will be a great shame the day it does close down!
So what EWS depot are still fully open now? cannot be many left!

Martrin


Mart,

Do you mean EWS traincrew depots or EWS Maint depots.

There are plenty of traincrew depots stretching all across the country but the maint depots are few and far between. The nearest repair depot to us in Inverness is either Mossend or Millerhill (for what their worth).

Les

[mart_56110]

Hi,

Yeah like TMD that are still fully open. Has Immingham closed now or it is still hanging on like Thornaby?

Martin

[Blade Fisher]

Les G,

Has Ayr shed closed?

[LesG]

Les G,

Has Ayr shed closed?

To the best of my knowledge, Ayr is now only a traincrew depot only maint depots in Scotland are Mossend and Millerhill, although EWS does have two fitters at Fort Bill.

Les

[Dynamo]

Even though Thornaby depot itself is closing, there'll still be fitters based in the area, but they'll become mobile.

[Gandalf]

Will they then be refurbishing the Wickham Trolleys for personal mobility?
More seriously I wonder what sort of operational radius they will have to cover and how will they get to where they are needed? Not so good if it is any distance and travelling takes longer than the work to be done.
John (G)

[Dynamo]

I don't think they actually need to travel very far to be honest. Most of the work will be done in Tees Yard, and for any more major work, the loco's will be hauled off to Toton if they can't run under their own power.

One thing to remember though is the fact that the modern day loco's that EWS use aren't anywhere near as labour intensive as the older loco's used to be. They are also much more reliable.

[Dynamo]

Here's a pic of a DB Class 66 in Germany. A friend tells me this loco now has a big DB in the middle of its body since this photo was taken. He also reckons this could be the corporate colour of all DB's loco's soon. That includes EWS.

[paul miller]

I dont know much about new motive power, apart from I enjoy watching them.
Is it just me, or do the 66's really look good in whatever livery they are turned out in.
Paul.

[Dynamo]

Yeah I think your right there Paul. They do look pretty good in whatever livery. Its just a shame they are built like bike sheds on wheels. :D

Here's the livery us at work think suits it best though.

[paul miller]

That looks mean! Almost like something out of a science fiction movie.
You say they are like a bike shed on wheels. Does that mean they really are'nt as good as they look?
Paul.

[Dynamo]

Yeah. They look ok from a distance, but the bodywork is very close to being like corrugated iron. There's two reasons for this. Firstly its to keep the weight of the loco down, and secondly and most importantly, it helps keep the price down as well because it makes them easier to maufacture and also keeps the cost of materials down. Alan Sugar would have been proud of the finished products though.

[paul miller]

He would'nt have fired anyone then. I dont watch "The Apprentice" but have seen clips from it. That seems to be his catch phrase.

Paul.

[robbo]

Firstly its to keep the weight of the loco down.

Doesn`t the extra weight resting on the driving wheels give it more traction on the rails?

[John H-T]

It's a fine balance between adhesive weight and axle loading!

[Dynamo]

It's a fine balance between adhesive weight and axle loading!

When the first of the 66's were being built they knew how heavy they were allowed to make them, so the last thing they added to them was the fuel tank. The reason being was so that they could put as big a tank on as possible that would make the loco still beneath the maximum weight with a full tank.

[G6 UXU]

EWS need to give their locos a wash that would knock a tonne off each ones axle weight.

[LesG]

EWS need to give their locos a wash that would knock a tonne off each ones axle weight.


Much more important things to do with locos than wash them. (management statement)

Les:p :D

[Dynamo]

Further to my original post in this thread, here's some pics of the latest EWS loco to come out of the paint shops. The red is darker than the normal EWS red and once again there's no mention at all of EWS anywhere on the loco.

The word is that very soon, all train staff will soon by issued with a brand new uniform, and the EWS brand will not be on it.

Cheers. Ewan.

[Deathbyteacup]

Not to be of poor taste but isn't there something ironic about a British locomotive carrying the German national railway logo and a British Army banner?

Sign of the times I suppose.

[Shed Cat]

Not to be of poor taste but isn't there something ironic about a British locomotive carrying the German national railway logo and a British Army banner?

Possibly, but you would be hard put to find a county that the British [or English] Army hasn't fought at sometime in our history :D

[Dynamo]

Possibly, but you would be hard put to find a county that the British [or English] Army hasn't fought at sometime in our history :D


I think you'll find that the first and second world wars were probably about the only times in our history that we've been at war with Germany. Since the second world war we've been brothers in arms with them, especially during the cold war.

Cheers. Ewan.

[hairyhandedfool]

I think you'll find that the first and second world wars were probably about the only times in our history that we've been at war with Germany. Since the second world war we've been brothers in arms with them, especially during the cold war.

Cheers. Ewan.

This would be because, since WWII, Germany were banned from having there own army/airforce perhaps? The British Army and the RAF have bases there.

[Foghut]

The word is that very soon, all train staff will soon by issued with a brand new uniform, and the EWS brand will not be on it.
Some of the EWS 'old boys' who wear a T shirt and jeans will be in for a bit of a culture shock then, if DB follows the current trend of dressing Freight Train Drivers to look like business men in a suit and tie - GBRf style.

Can you imagine sitting on a filty old ballast train at 3 AM, trying to get your head down but making sure you don't crease your suit or get dirt on it ? Crazy !

I remember when Connex first got their franchise. The uniform was b***dy awful, but I damaged my ribs laughing when they pushed the Fench theme too far and tried to make us wear Foreign Legion style Kepi hats.

Just like these splendid chaps :D...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:French_Foreign_Legion_dsc06878.jpg

I wish I'd kept mine now, but sadly it fell under a train and got crushed. Oddly enough this happened to most of them. ;)

[Deathbyteacup]

I remember when Connex first got their franchise. The uniform was b***dy awful, but I damaged my ribs laughing when they pushed the Fench theme too far and tried to make us wear Foreign Legion style Kepi hats.

Just like these splendid chaps :D...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:French_Foreign_Legion_dsc06878.jpg

....You've got to be kidding, right?

[Foghut]

....You've got to be kidding, right?
Nope the hats were similar to that, except light blue.

I wasn't suggesting they gave us the frilly red bits and sub-machine guns, though there have been times.....;)

[Dynamo]

Some of the EWS 'old boys' who wear a T shirt and jeans will be in for a bit of a culture shock then, if DB follows the current trend of dressing Freight Train Drivers to look like business men in a suit and tie - GBRf style.

Can you imagine sitting on a filty old ballast train at 3 AM, trying to get your head down but making sure you don't crease your suit or get dirt on it ? Crazy !




I wear the EWS T shirt all the time, but if I was made to wear a proper shirt and tie it wouldn't bother me to be honest, even if it was on a ballast train. At this moment in time, though a new uniform has been mentioned, I've heard no word as to whether or not we'll be made to weat a shirt and tie. EWS drivers do get issued with shirts and ties as well.

Getting back to 60040 though, I was told last night that the colour is actually EWS red, though its obviously a much glossier version. I think that if they keep that style and colour without the yellow stripe then it will be a good plan. It looks much better.

[G6 UXU]

I saw 60040 yesterday on the Warrington to Blackburn Cargo Waggons and she looked a picture, even the inside was painted white. It would be great if all the 60s ended up in the same condition. All the best.

[Shed Cat]

I think you'll find that the first and second world wars were probably about the only times in our history that we've been at war with Germany. Since the second world war we've been brothers in arms with them, especially during the cold war.

and I think we were allies with the Prussians in the 19th Century before Germany existed. I'm just glad European wars seem to be a thing of the past, not forgetting some terrible things that have happened in eastern europe.

[LesG]

[QUOTE=Dynamo;16617]I wear the EWS T shirt all the time, but if I was made to wear a proper shirt and tie it wouldn't bother me to be honest, even if it was on a ballast train. At this moment in time, though a new uniform has been mentioned, I've heard no word as to whether or not we'll be made to weat a shirt and tie. EWS drivers do get issued with shirts and ties as well.

I also wear the EWS T-shirt when working freight, But when working the Scotrail sleeper or a passenger charter etc I will 99% of the time wear collar and tie as I feel that I am there representing my company and I try to look the part.

Les

[Shed Cat]

I also wear the EWS T-shirt when working freight, But when working the Scotrail sleeper or a passenger charter etc I will 99% of the time wear collar and tie as I feel that I am there representing my company and I try to look the part.

As a humble passenger, I would appreciate seeing a shirt and tied driver as it makes me believe that if the driver has taken care over that, then they will probably take care over the the whole driving job. A scruffy muppet in an T-shirt* and bobble hat at the controls might be the world's best driver, but I would be concerned.

Funny thing, prejudice.


* I am not saying anything about EWS T-shirts, but just idley rambling on about my grumpy old codger prejudices. :D

[Deathbyteacup]

As a humble passenger, I would appreciate seeing a shirt and tied driver as it makes me believe that if the driver has taken care over that, then they will probably take care over the the whole driving job. A scruffy muppet in an T-shirt* and bobble hat at the controls might be the world's best driver, but I would be concerned.

Funny thing, prejudice.


* I am not saying anything about EWS T-shirts, but just idley rambling on about my grumpy old codger prejudices. :D

Does it matter though when it comes to freight? I don't usually expect to see the driver anyway.

[Foghut]

OK, thanks to LesG & Dynamo for their replies. Sorry I was being a bit cheeky there but I was curious about your attitudes. I agree that if you are running a prestige service you ought to dress the part. I work for one of the few suburban passenger companies which still allows its drivers to wear T shirts, and I'd hate to be stuck in a Mickey Mouse suit like the Southeastern now have. Maybe it's because our units are so old and filthy ? When our new franchise started we were given white shirts and ties which got stained very quickly thanks to all the mechanical systems covered in grease.

It's funny how different nations view things though. I've seen SNCF drivers wearing shorts, flip-flops and a T shirt, and the passengers don't bat an eyelid - they're only bothered about the cleanliness and punctuality of the service and aren't fussed what the guy up front is wearing so long as he's getting it right.

But then I don't imagine we Brits would want to model ourselves on the French ! ;)

[LesG]

As a humble passenger, I would appreciate seeing a shirt and tied driver as it makes me believe that if the driver has taken care over that, then they will probably take care over the the whole driving job. A scruffy muppet in an T-shirt* and bobble hat at the controls might be the world's best driver, but I would be concerned.

Funny thing, prejudice.


* I am not saying anything about EWS T-shirts, but just idley rambling on about my grumpy old codger prejudices. :D


At my depot we have one particular driver who turns up to his work in scruffy EWS uniform and on top of that wears filthy dungarees and a dirty yellow vest/jacket no matter what train he happens to be working.

He turned up to work the Royal train dressed like that and was surprised that that the inspector threw him off:eek:.

Les

[paul miller]

Saved Prince Philip calling him a "Scruffy B*****d I suppose.
Paul.

[swisstrains]

I personally don't see a problem with "smart casual" and neither do many of the railways across mainland Europe.
However in the U.K. there are so many "sloppy dressers" who couldn't be trusted to dress appropriately that I think the TOC's are right to provide a shirt and tie etc.

[DSY011]

At my depot we have one particular driver who turns up to his work in scruffy EWS uniform and on top of that wears filthy dungarees and a dirty yellow vest/jacket

I wonder how he would get on in Japan where all the on board train staff wear white gloves.:D

[Dynamo]

Well folks. Its actually going to happen. EWS will cease to be at midnight on the 31st of December 2008 and will in future be known as DB Schenker. At present there are no plans to dismantle the groups and they will continue operating as DB Schenker Energy, DB Schenker Construction, DB Schenker Industrial and DB Schenker Network.

[Flying Pig]

Well folks. Its actually going to happen. EWS will cease to be at midnight on the 31st of December 2008 and will in future be known as DB Schenker. At present there are no plans to dismantle the groups and they will continue operating as DB Schenker Energy, DB Schenker Construction, DB Schenker Industrial and DB Schenker Network.
Well I wish all EWS employees the best. I've read in the industry mags that aggregate and car transporter markets have stopped dead in the water, whereas coal flows are growing steadily. (This situation of course applies equally to FL, GBRf, DRS & all).

I do hope that 2009 isn't going to be another of those 'annus horriblis' things.

Still it won't stop me saying.......Merry Christmas everyone ! :p

[almark]

Stupid bit of thinking i think,EWS is a well known name by companies around the world,if a new company wants to ship freight by rail they won't know who this "DB Schenker" lot is! Oh well.......

[John H-T]

DB is well known internationally!

[Dynamo]

DB is well known internationally!

Apparently they are the second largest land based freight company in the world.

[almark]

Yes i know DB is known everywhere but do companies here know that,some of them might not of heard of DB,then again.......

[Deathbyteacup]

Personally I liked the EWS name and logo, it was very much a traditional-style name for a railway company, plus the Lion, Dragon and Stag logo is awesome.

Pssh DB Schencalankadanka. Too European.

[reflector]

It seems to be one of the trends these days that companies like to keep changing their identities. The days when companies built a reputation with an easily identifiable and remembered brand name are seemingly gone and I am not at all convinced it's a sensible thing to do......unless they have something they want to hide behind of course.

[LesG]

All thats changing at the moment is the name, as far as anyone is concerned its business as usual.

The company headed paper etc will remain EWS until all stock has been used so as letters etc are posted out the customers at first should not see any differance, then only when DB Schenker post marked mail drops through their doors will the differance be noticed and by then I would imagine that all customers would have had a letter detailing the company name change.

For the staff at the company the new year is not starting well with around 500 job losses anounced. I understand that the numbers will be confirmed in the first two weeks of January.

As a member of DB Schenker/EWS staff I personally feel that the company under the Germans can only go one way 'upwards' providing we can get some forward thinking managers that are willing to see our trains run and give their support to train crews that are trying to see the company succeed no matter what the name is

I wish all staff, customers and anyone reading this a very happy new year and all the best for 2009 in everything that we/you do.

[swisstrains]

.........................As a member of DB Schenker/EWS staff I personally feel that the company under the Germans can only go one way 'upwards' .......................

Positive thinking Les. DB Cargo/Railion/DB Schenker, call them what you like, have taken full advantage of the open access rules in mainland Europe and are going from strength to strength. Lets hope they can do the same in the UK and that 2009 will be a positive year for the company, it's staff and railfreight in general.

[John H-T]

I liked the EWS livery, logo and image, in my view one of the best of the privatised Railway Companies (along with GNER). Sadly they are both now gone!

DB will probably do a great job .......................

[reflector]

As a member of DB Schenker/EWS staff I personally feel that the company under the Germans can only go one way 'upwards' providing we can get some forward thinking managers that are willing to see our trains run and give their support to train crews that are trying to see the company succeed no matter what the name is.



You may well be right in that a change of ownership is exactly what is needed. I have no problem with that at all. All I am saying is that a brand name is important and that changes of name are not always necessary and certainly not always in the organisation's best interests. I would have thought that EWS is a sound and fairly well trusted name in and beyond the industry and something on which they can build. There is no reason at all why they could not have kept the name (and corporate image)rather than launching something new which inevitably will take the wider public some time to recognise and to trust.

My gas/electricity provider has changed its' name three or four times now in almost as many years which I cannot see is to the benefit of the company or the customer, most of whom I guess are now totally confused as to they get their energy from. Mind you, with the reputation of many providers, perehaps that is the intention!

Good luck to all involved with EWS.

[Flying Pig]

I would have thought that EWS is a sound and fairly well trusted name in and beyond the industry and something on which they can build.
I'll try NOT to offend any EWS employees, it's a company I deeply respect. Anyway here goes....

Sadly on the Railway nowadays, just as everywhere else, 'style wins over content'

EWS is seen by many in the industry as being the last freight company to do things 'The Old BR way'. Not that there's anything wrong with the old way, but things change over time and there's alot of competition now.

Companies like GBRf, which is a relatively new player, have swept away most old working practices. As part of the First group they are extremely image conscious; they portray themselves as being very business orientated by doing things like dressing their drivers in suits and calling them Train Managers. This is only window-dressing, but customer seem
to lap it up.

But fundamentally it's Logistics which count. By basing many of their drivers at home and faxing jobsheets directly to them, they save on real estate costs. Also by sending out fuel bowsers to meet the locos at remote locations they save on having fuelling points. Obviously this enables them to undercut the prices that EWS with its enormous resource base has to charge. The bottom line is that GBRf can do it cheaper much of the time, and their reliability is around 99%. Hence they're growing like a virus.

Most industry insiders believe it's time for EWS to face up to GBRf, HH, and DRS and play them at their own game. But it will take a visionary to lead this, and it will be painful for many. And of course on top of this we're now enterring a recession/depression, so things will even harder still.

Personally I deeply hope EWS wins through. They have a really experienced and talented workforce, which thoroughly deserves to win more work.

I believe that EWS really does need an image change, and I hope that DB Schenker can take it forward. Good luck to them.

[paul miller]

I wish them good luck for the sake of the employees.
I dont begin to understand the need for all the changes of "brand" and "image", but if it keeps people in a job, and hopefully makes someone realise that eventually we have to get vast amounts of frieght back on the railways and off the roads, then I can live with it.
Paul.

[washingmachine]

EWS workers are very flexible,will go the extra mile to get things right.GBRail and F HH are run by ex EWS staff.There is a lot of good will from staff running EWS.It would collapse if they worked the way their managers want them to.The problem is senior managers ,there from BR days,junior managers shit scared to make a decision incase they are relocated to the dole.Their CEO runs it with an iron fist and won't listen to suggestions to improve.
Man management is very poor in this company.Their workers still deliver whilst getting treated piss poor.
DB may be what is needed,but they need to get rid of most of the present management and some of the crap graduates that are being taken on.
Safety,its the tick box culture.reactive not proactive.
All rail companies are in the same boat.

[washingmachine]

Yes,the end of EWS,but the start of something big.Look out other freight companies.:D

[LesG]

EWS workers are very flexible,will go the extra mile to get things right.GBRail and F HH are run by ex EWS staff.There is a lot of good will from staff running EWS.It would collapse if they worked the way their managers want them to.The problem is senior managers ,there from BR days,junior managers shit scared to make a decision incase they are relocated to the dole.Their CEO runs it with an iron fist and won't listen to suggestions to improve.
Man management is very poor in this company.Their workers still deliver whilst getting treated piss poor.
DB may be what is needed,but they need to get rid of most of the present management and some of the crap graduates that are being taken on.
Safety,its the tick box culture.reactive not proactive.
All rail companies are in the same boat.

WM,

I don't know if you work for EWS/DB schenker but if you do its not the same company I work for.

I agree with some of what you say but with other bits of this comment its pure rubbish.

I have to watch what i say, but many of our drivers don't want to change the old practices, mainly those from the large depots, they want the big money but they want it for doing next to nothing. Many of our older drivers are still working to what is called the pre 1988 agreements, now I won't even pretend to or understand the details of this agreement as its way before my time on the railway. New drivers have to agree to drive road vehicles to and from jobs if the diagramme needs that particular form of transport. These pre 1988 drivers do not have to drive road vehs so therefore that part of the job becomes a taxi ride which then equalls two taxi rides, one for him and one for the returning driver. According to our management the taxi bill is absolutley phenonomil for the company,

Yes many of our staff will go that extra mile to make a train run and keep it running but if we get to a point where we start to exceed our legal timings etc and can't get relief there comes a point where we have to say enough is enough. A couple of months ago a train arrived at our depot that was a couple of hours late, through no fault of the company, the relieving driver, who had travelled up pass refused to work the train away because he would have been a few minutes over his day and returned home pass leaving a train standing with no-one to work it.

This to me is what DB-Schenker has to stamp out the old BR mentallity, not just from its traincrews/groundstaff but also from some managers aswell. These people have to move into the 21st railway centuary and realise that the only way to work is to work as a team and maybe we can succeed as a team.

Your statement about a lot of good will from the people running EWS, Can you point them out to me please cause I have yet to meet any one running the company that has any.

Just my view from someone from a small DB depot.

Les

[washingmachine]

The taxi problem is being sorted,a taxi bill for £96k is a joke when we see people going up he road,don't have the same problem with drivers you have had.Not many old school drivers left.Drivers I know will keep trains running and not bail out if they run slightly over hours.The good will is from staff,NOT managers.Staff on the sharp end are running the show.The managers are playing golf.Best place for them.
It runs as a team but screws up when managers get involved.
Get rid of the business units is the first step.


Can't see why you have called my comment rubbish.Its FACT in my area.Sorry its not in yours.Nothing wrong with the old BR mentality long as its positive. Some of the "newboys/galls" to the rail industry have not got a clue.Some have been found out and sacked.One nearly lost a major contract.

[washingmachine]

See DB SCHENKER (EWS) has lost a lot of network rail work.around 40% is a huge amount of work.Don't think their senior managers care.Hopefully they will pick up other work.

[LesG]

See DB SCHENKER (EWS) has lost a lot of network rail work.around 40% is a huge amount of work.Don't think their senior managers care.Hopefully they will pick up other work.

Got told about this this morning plus the other bit:

Another 150 jobs to go on top of what has already been announced, unconfirmed report!

Les

[swisstrains]

The magazine "Today's Railways Europe" reports that DB/Schenker have had to hire 170 km of siding space in Germany to store idle wagons. The number of freight trains operated is down 40% and 8000 wagons have been put in store.

[washingmachine]

Its going to be a tough year for DB and its staff.The Uk operation needs to drop its business unit thing.Its been a disaster,nearly all its staff can see the problem .The company needs to fight the downturn as ONE unit,all staff pulling the same direction.Only then will progress be made.

[BRIZER]

Im An Ews Employee We Dont Get Told Any Information From The Company Or From Aslef Our Union. In Our Area, Ayrshire, Freightliner Has Grabbed Alot Of The Work That Used To Be Our Core Work. Hope Someone Knows More Outthere

[washingmachine]

The trouble is that some of the managers and staff are ex EWS/DB Schenker employees. so they took their contacts with them.The management that are left are clueless.We complained about BR,wish we could turn the clock back as this shower are shit.So are the unions.

[LesG]

this shower are shit.So are the unions.

Washingmachine I would'nt quite as far as this on the management (well maybe some) but what this company really neads Is for managers to sit down and listen to the staff that actually work the trains our ideas and our grievances about the company but you know yourself that most of them don't give a stuff.

I had the misfortune to be stranded at my depot this week and the company paid for a hotel for me, so not all managers are uncaring, As they did not have to do this

What we need is forward thinking managers that are willing to go get and not stay in thier offices in the warm drinking coffee all day.

I also believe that we need to get rid of the RED HERRING in Doncaster the CSMD (can't see don't care) and get back to regional control and controllers that know the area they control and to stop looking at a 1964 railway map book to make stupid decisions that can't possibly work as there are no rails for what the want us to do.

As for the Unions you hit the nail on the head!

Les

[washingmachine]

This company went down hill when Jim Fisk left,I got to know him and was impressed with the way he operated.And Berkhart,met hime a couple of times.
This bunch running it are arrogant ex BR managers.One director got a new car yesterday as they made two loco controllers redundant.
Totally agree with area control.
Been told that they have revised plans for staff reductions,less than originally thought.
Major problem is loco shortages,loads in store,but 40 locos to work 49 trains is crap.

[25250]

Ermm, did you know that my company (London Midland) are allowing EWS/DB Schenker drivers that are surplus drive the Watford - St. Albans service and also certain e.c.s. workings Euston - Camden sidings. We're short of drivers in spite of being told from day one that we were surplus!

[Pom Liner]

WM,

I don't know if you work for EWS/DB schenker but if you do its not the same company I work for.

I agree with some of what you say but with other bits of this comment its pure rubbish.

I have to watch what i say, but many of our drivers don't want to change the old practices, mainly those from the large depots, they want the big money but they want it for doing next to nothing. Many of our older drivers are still working to what is called the pre 1988 agreements, now I won't even pretend to or understand the details of this agreement as its way before my time on the railway. New drivers have to agree to drive road vehicles to and from jobs if the diagramme needs that particular form of transport. These pre 1988 drivers do not have to drive road vehs so therefore that part of the job becomes a taxi ride which then equalls two taxi rides, one for him and one for the returning driver. According to our management the taxi bill is absolutley phenonomil for the company,

Yes many of our staff will go that extra mile to make a train run and keep it running but if we get to a point where we start to exceed our legal timings etc and can't get relief there comes a point where we have to say enough is enough. A couple of months ago a train arrived at our depot that was a couple of hours late, through no fault of the company, the relieving driver, who had travelled up pass refused to work the train away because he would have been a few minutes over his day and returned home pass leaving a train standing with no-one to work it.

This to me is what DB-Schenker has to stamp out the old BR mentallity, not just from its traincrews/groundstaff but also from some managers aswell. These people have to move into the 21st railway centuary and realise that the only way to work is to work as a team and maybe we can succeed as a team.

Your statement about a lot of good will from the people running EWS, Can you point them out to me please cause I have yet to meet any one running the company that has any.

Just my view from someone from a small DB depot.

Les

I think its relative to where exactly you happen to work. Theres some depots with higher concentrations of 'dinosaurs' as I like to put it, that cannot, or will not accept they now work in the private sector. These people, still think that they work for BR, even though all around them has changed. Every depot has two or three, but to tar all EWS/DB 'drivers' (interesting you single drivers out....) with the same brush does the vast majority a huge dis-service. If I were a driver wherever you work, i'd be gently tapping you on the shoulder and requesting a quiet word about what you have said here.

Im more persuaded by 'Washing Machine' and what he says. As an ex-EWS employee, I have to agree that many of the top to middle management are 3rd rate ex BR management, running scared of the tyranical midget from Canada. Things started to go seriously awry when Mengle replaced Burkhardt, and have only got worse. The visionaries fell by the wayside, the likes of Kim Jordon, Ian Braybrook etc, and were replaced by yes men. The can do attitude dissapeared, and gradually EWS went from truly being the 'best' to an organization continually fighting fires whilst believing it was setting 'Industry Standards'.

In short EWS was a dinosaur, that needed putting out of its misery. The company signified all that was wrong, and customers and staff voted with their feet. I left 6 months after the 'new' sectors were created for a lower paid job but one for a company that actually cares for its employees and can actually run a service to the customers needs rather than its own. When I departed, EWS were lurching from one disaster to the next, with the middle management increasingly desperate, and in a manner that effectively blamed the 'worker' for the troubles.

One last thought - Heller has never made any secret of his desire to concentrate on block traffic flows, it is also widely recognized that DB were only interested in the mainland Europe operation. With NR reducing its ballast commitments by 40 - 50%, EWS yards being mothballed, staff leaving and getting made redundant, wagons going to store and locos being mothballed or sold off for scrap, you have to ask yourself if the company is ever going to recover in the uk. I suggest not.

[John H-T]

Welcome to the Forum Pom Liner. I have a feeling you will have plenty to contribute! I look forward to your posts.

I have deleted your second post as it appears to be a duplicate. If not please accept my appologies. Anyway if you like to check that the remaining post says all you wanted it to and amend accordingly.

Many thanks.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

[DSY011]

Hello Pom liner and welcome to the railway forum. Nice to get another view on the EWS/DB debate.

[Pom Liner]

Welcome to the Forum Pom Liner. I have a feeling you will have plenty to contribute! I look forward to your posts.

I have deleted your second post as it appears to be a duplicate. If not please accept my appologies. Anyway if you like to check that the remaining post says all you wanted it to and amend accordingly.

Many thanks.

Best wishes,

John H-T.

Thanks John, your welcome is appreciated. I did try to add to the above post but it seemed to have been lost....the forum logged me out, but it was referring to a previous posters seemingly ignorant (through no fault of his own i'll add here now) of EWS/DB traincrew agreements, and rules governing time in the seat - or driving hours as laid down by the Hidden 18 reccomendation which came into being as a direct result of the Clapham disaster in the late 80's (i was a Railman at London Bridge, early turn that day).

I'll get round to adding it again in due course, but a better version! In the meantime, I'd like to remind the Scottish chap that if a train was already 2hrs late, then it may be the driver baled out because if he hit someone or had a SPAD at 12hrs 3 mins then he'd be on his own union wise. No one likes being interviewed by HMRI under caution.....:)

[Pom Liner]

Ermm, did you know that my company (London Midland) are allowing EWS/DB Schenker drivers that are surplus drive the Watford - St. Albans service and also certain e.c.s. workings Euston - Camden sidings. We're short of drivers in spite of being told from day one that we were surplus!

The story goes that London Midland are HIRING drivers from DB to cover for shortages. Ive passed a few familliar ex-colleagues during my sporadic forays down the West Coast. I suggest, that with the current turmoil and uncertainty, LM would be grateful to acquire a set of fully trained drivers and certain drivers currently of DB would be grateful to depart for pastures more secure. Win Win situation all round then.

But going on from this, the answer to the question that is this thread: End of the line for EWS?

Yes, it most certainly the end of a chapter in Britains colourful railway heritage. The only question now is should we mourn its loss, or say like many customers and staff "The king is dead, Long live the King".

[berwickspotter]

To the best of my knowledge, Ayr is now only a traincrew depot only maint depots in Scotland are Mossend and Millerhill, although EWS does have two fitters at Fort Bill.

Les

les what about motherwell tmd ?
is it still going

[geoff ayre]

hi i was a passed cleaner at thornaby from 1961 to 1965 plenty of steamers but quickly dieselised after 1963 the year of frost only the steam engines coped the diesel freezing

[Sou-West]

The end is nigh for Ayr depot and Falkland yard. Both to close, and planning permission has been sought for housing on Ayr sheds. Doubt it will be given but just goes to show that no matter the size of a company, asset stripping is not taboo subject. A real lack of forward thinking by management when you consider Prestwick Airport (freight) is 3 miles away and Ayr harbour is as busy now as it has ever been. A shame and a disgrace.:(

[ccmmick]

The end is nigh for Ayr depot and Falkland yard. Both to close, and planning permission has been sought for housing on Ayr sheds. Doubt it will be given but just goes to show that no matter the size of a company, asset stripping is not taboo subject. A real lack of forward thinking by management when you consider Prestwick Airport (freight) is 3 miles away and Ayr harbour is as busy now as it has ever been. A shame and a disgrace.:(

Hi Sou-West
And welcome to the forum i hope you like it
I used to work at St Blazey depot in Cornwall and i dont think it will be long before the same happens there they have very little work there now it is a shame i suppose its a sign of the times :( :( :(
Cheers
ccmmick.

[wyvern]

The end is nigh for Ayr depot and Falkland yard. Both to close, and planning permission has been sought for housing on Ayr sheds. Doubt it will be given but just goes to show that no matter the size of a company, asset stripping is not taboo subject. A real lack of forward thinking by management when you consider Prestwick Airport (freight) is 3 miles away and Ayr harbour is as busy now as it has ever been. A shame and a disgrace.:(

Looking on other forums (fora?) it seems closure is not particularly imminent for Ayr depot and Falkland yard and someone is guilty of making up malicious stories. :mad:

[ccmmick]

Looking on other forums (fora?) it seems closure is not particularly imminent and someone is guilty of making up malicious stories. :mad:

I cant say for any other depots but i do know that St Blazey doesn't have much work now and there aint all that many drivers there, in years to come i can see houses there.
When i was there it was a busy depot the clay was thriving and
we used to flood Fowey docks with train after train load, boats would come in on the high tide and go out on the next high tide :)

ccmmick.

[Max Webster]

For all the talk of there being some big percentage or other increase in railfreight since privatisation, I get the impression this is mostly down to coal being shipped further and the actual tonnage of freight carried had barely risen (and will have fallen now in the recession). I commute between Cheltenham and Bristol and while the M5 (like most motorways) is awash with lorries, I pass next-to-no freight on the railway. The few freight terminals that remain in the west country seem to be slowly shutting (Bristol East Steel, Bath waste, Quidhampton china clay just a few in the last year or so); the Enterprise network seems to barely exist; Advenza Freight has gone belly-up. It would be interesting to hear from current freight company employees what their 'take' is on what the future holds?

[control-manager]

Hi,
At 71 years old and have worked on the od British Rail,I still like Trainspotting EWS locomotives with there large Numbers helped,but DB Schenker's numbered Locomotives don't help old people to get the numbers.

[Dave Rowland]

Hi,
At 71 years old and have worked on the od British Rail,I still like Trainspotting EWS locomotives with there large Numbers helped,but DB Schenker's numbered Locomotives don't help old people to get the numbers.

I'm all for that! When I was a kid in Reading in the 50's, it was nearly impossible to read the cast brass GWR numberplates at any distance, it was great whwn I went home from school, there was always a SR loco with an inter-regional passenger service crossing Scours Lane bridge (if I was quick), and the numbers could easily be read at about 350 yards. After doing a lot of spotting in France, I strayed upon a couple of Belgian (SNCB) locos - they had huge numbers at both ends! I spent a lot of time in Belgium after that - AND Holland, where loco numbers were equally large. And all that was BEFORE my eyesight started to go downhill! :D:D

[klordger1900]

why on earth would 23404 people want to hit on this thread?? That is so massive I just wondered how far across Europe this has travelled. Does EWS have another meaning...!!

[ccmmick]

Does EWS have another meaning...!!

Engines Wagons Slaves :D :D.

ccmmick.

[klordger1900]

THE MOST OBVIOUS ONE IS Early Warning System ESPECIALLY WITH CLIMATE CHANGE HAPPENING SO FAST IN THE UK AND NO WHERE ELSE!!

[48111]

Bring back the Lion and Wheel !

48111

[springs branch mickey]

I'd settle for putting back the red cross on our white flag!:mad:

[LesG]

Engines Wagons Slaves :D :D.

ccmmick.

Empty Wagon Sidings,

Ed Was Sacked

Eat Work and Sleep

Les

[ccmmick]

Thanks Les for them
I have heard of Eat Work and Sleep before but not the other two.

ccmmick.

[Seabrook]

WEFOC will soon have no regular traffic, DBS will soon only be using C Fan comprising 8 roads. When you consider the huge waste on Stratford and Wembley Inter-modal terminals installing new cranes and facilities. The former completely gone, the latter not now in use. Who can say the Public money spent on Channel Tunnel Rail infrastructure has not been wasted?

[Intermodalist]

WEFOC will soon have no regular traffic, DBS will soon only be using C Fan comprising 8 roads. When you consider the huge waste on Stratford and Wembley Inter-modal terminals installing new cranes and facilities. The former completely gone, the latter not now in use. Who can say the Public money spent on Channel Tunnel Rail infrastructure has not been wasted?


I agree. The amount of Channel Tunnel-specific taxpayer money 'lost' since the opening of the tunnel in 1994 is quite staggering really.

On just the intermodal side of things, the sums are quite massive. Take for example, the three pairs of Morris cranes bought. The units meant for Stratford of course didn't get used there and went for use at the Freightliner Manchester terminal. Last year these cranes, like the pair of Morris cranes that went to Landor Street, were replaced and scrapped.

In the meantime, the last remaining pair, which stand at Willesden, has not been in use for several years.

Then there are the two pairs of Armund cranes. The pair in place at Willesden, like the Morris cranes, has not been in use for years. As for the units at Manchester, according to several press reports, DB Schenker is mothballing the Trafford Park terminal this month, so these cranes will be doing nothing from now on.

So in the space of 16 years the British taxpayer has purchased fives pairs of RMG cranes, none of which are now in use. I think that's quite an achievement.

As for changes at the Wembley yards, I confess I don’t know what you mean by the C Fan. I pass the yard every day, and looking at an aerial photo of the yard, are you saying that the long 750m tracks are the ones that will remain in use? Do these make-up the C Fan?

By implication therefore, will the shorter lines, especially those that are effectively sidings, be taken out of use?

[Seabrook]

'C Fan' are the 8 tracks next to Wembley Carriage Sidings the furtherest away from the main line. From the Main Line you first see the Reception Sidings which are the longest tracks, Then 'A fan' which is through tracks, 'B Fan' consists of tracks with stops and finally 'C Fan' has through roads directly in front of Wembley Signalling Centre. My information directly from DBS Traincrew based at Wembley.

[Intermodalist]

I can understand why the B Fan are seen as redundant, as they have always been a bit of design weakness of the yard.

But I struggle to understand why the C Fan tracks are seen as more valuable than the reception sidings adjacent to the mainline.

Looking at an aerial photo, the C Fan tracks are only around 450m in length. Surely if one is wear a cost-cutting hat one would abandon Fan C in favour of the seven Fan A rception tracks, which are 750m-plus in length.

[33056]

Don't know which train crew you have been speaking to; C fan doesn't have 8 tracks, only five (six if you include B8) and one of those is out of use at one end! Also A fan only has five roads as well and one of those is out of use at the south end.

Most likely outcome is to concentrate remaining trains on the Reception roads of which there are seven, fully track circuited and signalled.

B Fan is quite useful for doing repairs and suchlike, especially as much of it does not have OHL to complicate matters.

[Seabrook]

Thank-you 33056; regarding the actual number of roads in Wembley EFOC I stand corrected. However what might seem as common sense to you will not necessarily be the action DBS take. The only update I can give is, it is the intention to only use 3 roads in 'C Fan'.

[Intermodalist]

I must say, the only only logical rationalisation seems to be a retraction back to using just the reception roads. After all, DBS still needs the capability to 'hold' Channel Tunnel trains, and, therefore, I'm sure the company will indeed carry on using these 750m-plus tracks in preference over the shorter Fan C tracks.

If the Fan C tracks do fall out of use, I'm not sure this ought to be seen as any major loss.

A more worrying development is the moth-balling of the Trafford Park terminal. Is DBS is not able to drum up enough Channel Tunnel traffic from the Manchester area then things must be bad.

[The Crab]

I very rarely travel by train nowadays so I often see big changes between trips. A recent weekday journey from Dundee to Sheffield produced just three freight trains on the 300-odd mile route including areas of heavy industry. Should the question be "End of the line for freight?"

[Intermodalist]

No, it's not the end of the line for freight.

In terms of intermodal trains carrying shipping containers to and from British ports, they will always exist and will rise in number as world trade grows again.

In terms of intermodal trains carrying European swap bodies and containers, be that traffic via the Channel Tunnel or via the East Coast ports, these will carry on running so long as the costs of running them do not rise to a prohibitive level - cost has historically been the major barrier to growth for these services.

In terms of trains carry bulk products by the train-load, these will carry on running.

Also, I expect the tiny number of wagon-load trains to carry on running along the same core network that exists now, bolstered by the continuance of MOD traffic.

The reason why you did not see many freight trains during your journey between Dundee and Sheffield is not because the railway is failing in any way. If you want to see large numbers of freights, many of which running one after the other, pop down to southern section of the WCML.

[The Crab]

I hope that you are right, I'm sure you are when it comes to container traffic - I sometimes work next to the main line at Romford & there are always plenty of containers passing. When I moved to Sheffield in 1980 I often got the Master Cutler to London and freight trains would be literally nose to tail on the goods lines from Tapton Jct (Chesterfield) to Clay Cross. On a similar journey today I would guess that you might see one freight all the way to St Pancras. I didn't know that any wagonload stuff still ran - do you have any details?

[Max Webster]

Regarding Wembley, I read in one of the railway magazines that much of its Enterprise/wagonload work is transferring to Didcot. Does this imply that these services are to be integrated more with the MoD network (Didcot being a hub for this)? Also read that Trafford Park's traffic is transferring to Wakefield Europort, as the latter has 'better transport links'. As for money wasted on under-used/unused freight infrastructure, a prime example must be the new terminals built for the Royal Mail traffic, most of which can only have seen a couple of years work. At the other end of the scale would be the siding built at Kyle of Lochalsh for wagonload freight - did it ever generate any? And what has become of the new terminal in Portsmouth - I haven't read of anything out of there yet.

[LesG]

. At the other end of the scale would be the siding built at Kyle of Lochalsh for wagonload freight - did it ever generate any?

Not in the last 11 years!

Les

[HM181]

I am ex BR and also worked for EWS from day 1.
As a trade union rep at National Level and also at my depot I have worked with company directors and local managers.
The whole management culture on EWS revolves around bully boy tactics from all levels of the management strata.
They do not care about certain sections of staff, and thier MO is to reduce staffing levels at all costs, using any means at thier disposal.
This includes implimenting work rosters, ignoring local agreements made under the Partneship Agreements.
The managers will lie and cheat in thier dealings with staff, and cannot be trusted in any way shape or form.
We had an MD from Canada, and now he has gone home, in my view thats the best place for him.
I am glad that I took the money when I did, cos that brass is better in my pocket then in EWS's pocket.
This is my opinion on this company but is bourne out all over the system when you talk to other staff.

[Deathbyteacup]

I am ex BR and also worked for EWS from day 1.
As a trade union rep at National Level and also at my depot I have worked with company directors and local managers.
The whole management culture on EWS revolves around bully boy tactics from all levels of the management strata.
They do not care about certain sections of staff, and thier MO is to reduce staffing levels at all costs, using any means at thier disposal.
This includes implimenting work rosters, ignoring local agreements made under the Partneship Agreements.
The managers will lie and cheat in thier dealings with staff, and cannot be trusted in any way shape or form.
We had an MD from Canada, and now he has gone home, in my view thats the best place for him.
I am glad that I took the money when I did, cos that brass is better in my pocket then in EWS's pocket.
This is my opinion on this company but is bourne out all over the system when you talk to other staff.

I think this is the description of most companies in this day and age sadly. All too familiar story.

[21Aman]

I am ex BR and also worked for EWS from day 1.
As a trade union rep at National Level and also at my depot I have worked with company directors and local managers.
The whole management culture on EWS revolves around bully boy tactics from all levels of the management strata.
They do not care about certain sections of staff, and thier MO is to reduce staffing levels at all costs, using any means at thier disposal.
This includes implimenting work rosters, ignoring local agreements made under the Partneship Agreements.
The managers will lie and cheat in thier dealings with staff, and cannot be trusted in any way shape or form.
We had an MD from Canada, and now he has gone home, in my view thats the best place for him.
I am glad that I took the money when I did, cos that brass is better in my pocket then in EWS's pocket.
This is my opinion on this company but is bourne out all over the system when you talk to other staff.

I couldn't agree with you more mate,I spent 43 years on the footplate at Saltley and upto "privatisation" the job was brilliant,even when we were "sectorised" in 1994 and became an Railfreight Distribution Depot,things were fine.Then in 1998/99 RfD was "given" to EWS and the rot well and truly set in
I lasted until 2006 and thankfully "threw the towel" in and got out.The so called management of EWS are the worst managers I've ever worked under/with in all my 43 years service,and you're right they are just a bunch of "bully-boys" and nothing else.I realy feel sory for the younger drivers with no where else to go,however things might now change with DB in charge,I certainly hope so.

[HM181]

I couldn't agree with you more mate,I spent 43 years on the footplate at Saltley and upto "privatisation" the job was brilliant,even when we were "sectorised" in 1994 and became an Railfreight Distribution Depot,things were fine.Then in 1998/99 RfD was "given" to EWS and the rot well and truly set in
I lasted until 2006 and thankfully "threw the towel" in and got out.The so called management of EWS are the worst managers I've ever worked under/with in all my 43 years service,and you're right they are just a bunch of "bully-boys" and nothing else.I realy feel sory for the younger drivers with no where else to go,however things might now change with DB in charge,I certainly hope so.

Thanks for that Brother, I'm glad someone I do not know concurs with what I have written.
Do you work for West coast Railways?

[21Aman]

Thanks for that Brother, I'm glad someone I do not know concurs with what I have written.
Do you work for West coast Railways?

No sir when I retired in 2006 that was the end for me,I haven't really been near a railway since.

[HM181]

I met a driver on Saturday who was with EWS in Birmingham with the same amount of service as yourself. This driver now works for West Coast Railways.
I had just gone to Dawlish on a Green Party Express, that originated in Leeds.
He brought the train from Birmingham to Dawlish and return back to Brum.

[21Aman]

I met a driver on Saturday who was with EWS in Birmingham with the same amount of service as yourself. This driver now works for West Coast Railways.
I had just gone to Dawlish on a Green Party Express, that originated in Leeds.
He brought the train from Birmingham to Dawlish and return back to Brum.

I think that one of our "retired" drivers may have joined WCR and also a couple of ex Saltley DSM's (I think in the good old days they would be known as "Traction Inspectors")although in the case of the two in mind I use the words very liberally!

[Dynamo]

<snip>Then in 1998/99 RfD was "given" to EWS and the rot well and truly set in. Snip>

I hope you don't blame EWS completely for the problems that they had with the RfD section. I think the guy in charge of that company prior to privatisation was Ian Brown and if I remember correctly, he spat his dummy out and poisoned the well just prior to him leaving because he didn't get his own way, and EWS had to pick up the pieces.

[21Aman]

I hope you don't blame EWS completely for the problems that they had with the RfD section. I think the guy in charge of that company prior to privatisation was Ian Brown and if I remember correctly, he spat his dummy out and poisoned the well just prior to him leaving because he didn't get his own way, and EWS had to pick up the pieces.

The true fact of the matter is that RfD and Freightliner should never,ever have been separated and should have continued as an entity,this stupid decision was made by the same "stupid" government that "privatised" the railway system in 1994 and we now know the consequences ! Typical Tory party Dogma !!
Ian Brown was indeed the CEO of RfD and was dedicated to the cause of making RfD a major player in European Freight haulage through the Channel Tunnel,however certain things prevented this,one was the increase of "illegals" who seemed to travel thro' the Tunnel at will,which didn't do the "cause" much good,also you still had the "road haulage lobby" to contend with, something that is still and will be with us for the forseeable future.
The truth is that nobody wants "Railfreight" to succeed because it could be too cost effective !

[Seabrook]

'RfD and Freightliner should never,ever have been separated' The truth is Freightliner were taken over by their management who understood the strengths of the product and had built up good relationships with the transport and shipping companies they served. RFD on the other hand had a new business, new or refurbished terminals mainly sighted in places for political reasons. Stratford, Willesden, Manchester, Wakefield, Wentloog. Most now closed or hobbling along. RFD was a company whose entire business was dependent on the vagaries of French Trade Union disputes, something which would cause them damage when their trains couldn't run. The problem being they had no control of the running of their services being resourced by third party carriers. Whilst I would like to see all rail companies succeed I feel all RFD would have done is bring Freightliner down with it.

[saxokid]

EWS need to give their locos a wash that would knock a tonne off each ones axle weight.

Lol..........:D